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Author Topic: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!  (Read 372600 times)

burningpet

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5295 on: July 15, 2014, 08:53:23 am »

Er... I mean in it's 65 years. :V

I figured that'd be obvious. From the context. Considering the dude was talking about the accomplishments of Israel. Over the 65 years. :I

Except becoming a leading country in computer science, solar technology, water desalination, medicine, biology, chemistry, agriculture, physics, mathematics, financing and becoming one of the world's most stable economies? nothing at all. i mean, its not like we won the world cup or something.

And i'm back. at least for now...
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Draxis

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5296 on: July 15, 2014, 08:54:25 am »

/
btw we've yet to retaliate at all.
this scene seems to be a great analogy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
That's simply not true; whoever started it, Israel has been making aerial bombardments and at least limited ground attacks into Gaza for over a week.  Are they seriously telling you they're not?

That video is certainly a good analogy; however, it doesn't analogize quite like you want it to.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5297 on: July 15, 2014, 09:08:25 am »

Except becoming a leading country in computer science, solar technology, water desalination, medicine, biology, chemistry, agriculture, physics, mathematics, financing and becoming one of the world's most stable economies? nothing at all. i mean, its not like we won the world cup or something.

And i'm back. at least for now...
When America throws that much money at you it's hard not to

burningpet

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5298 on: July 15, 2014, 09:55:03 am »

Except becoming a leading country in computer science, solar technology, water desalination, medicine, biology, chemistry, agriculture, physics, mathematics, financing and becoming one of the world's most stable economies? nothing at all. i mean, its not like we won the world cup or something.

And i'm back. at least for now...
When America throws that much money at you it's hard not to

American funding to israel is around 1.5% of israel's GDP or 4% of israel annual budget, with 3/4 of it going directly back to american pockets. because of the restriction this aid imposes, it forces israel to have to buy equipment in higher prices than it can produce itself or get elsewhere, resulting, with some analysts opinions, in israel actually having to pay more than what it gets.

Also, america has blocked several extremely profitable trade agreements with china and russia which would have equaled around 1/4 of USA total funding to israel since its independence.

Since most of the, non-military, economical aid to israel was in forms of high interest loans that israel repaid, i count those out.

The american aid is not the reason for israel's achievements. (Also, where are all the other countries america gave aid to in relation to israel's success? where is syria? egypt? jordan? iraq? iran?)
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burningpet

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5299 on: July 15, 2014, 10:30:28 am »

yep, it's over

we might be past the ghetto stage here lads

Ghetto stage?

yeah, i have a quite nice opinion regarding what israel is doing with palestine in the long run

stating it when the resident israelis are busy being in the army and can't shout at me would be a bit rude towards them though

look up that one happenstance involving jews and ghettos in the mid-20th century thanks

Agreed. gaza is a ghetto. the largest prison cell in the world. only it was built, being maintained and guarded by hamas.
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Draxis

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5300 on: July 15, 2014, 10:50:59 am »

Well, the Israeli government is the one who built the walls, drove the people in, cut off the supplies, bombed the infrastructure, keep on shrinking the land, block anyone from getting in and out... how is that all Hamas' doing?  Hamas may not be nice, but I don't see how you can blame them for everything.
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burningpet

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5301 on: July 15, 2014, 11:12:28 am »

Very easy. hamas has dragged the entire gazan population into war. simple as that.

What alternative israel has? let in materials so they could build more tunnels into israel's border? (and do you realize that this entire operation started because israel needed to prevent a large scale 70 men strong attack by hamas terrorists via a two meters wide tunnel for civilian killing / soldiers kidnapping?) let any gazan enter freely into israel? realistically, what does israel suppose to do?
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Descan

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5302 on: July 15, 2014, 11:14:22 am »

Well, for one, stop driving Gazan Palestinians into the arms of Hamas by starving them out and bombing them...
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burningpet

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5303 on: July 15, 2014, 11:51:28 am »

Well, for one, stop driving Gazan Palestinians into the arms of Hamas by starving them out and bombing them...

Like the gazan people have anything to say about it. its like saying America is forcing north korean people into kim jon un because it had imposed economic sanctions on north korea.

No, the sad truth is that the gazan people simply can't or wont do anything about it regardless of israel, not because of israel.

Also, its hamas that rules the food supplies once it goes through the border and blocks it so the commodities prices would remain high enough to keep the tunnels and smuggling operation profitable (operations that are solely ran and profited by hamas).
The entire arab world is filled with corrupted dictators. this is not israel fault in the neighbouring countries and its not israel fault in gaza as well.

Its hamas that is starving its own people and is forcing israel to bomb their terrorists so it wouldn't target our innocent civilians. don't confuse results and causes.
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Draxis

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5304 on: July 15, 2014, 12:19:31 pm »

Quote from: burningpet
Very easy. hamas has dragged the entire gazan population into war. simple as that.
...
Like the gazan people have anything to say about it. its like saying America is forcing north korean people into kim jon un because it had imposed economic sanctions on north korea.
The Gazan population would be fighting anyway, because Israeli actions have left them with the appearant choice of either fighting to the death, or simple annhilation.  The difference is that without a state structure to fight within, they would be using suicide bombings instead of guerilla attacks.  They're a desperate population, and they'll cling to whatever gives them hope of existence. 

But even under the current circumstances, maybe if the Israeli population made their government stop assasinating more moderate Palestinian leaders and commiting genocide against their people, the Palestinians would see that they do have an alternative and stop fighting you.

No, the sad truth is that the gazan people simply can't or wont do anything about it regardless of israel, not because of israel.

Also, its hamas that rules the food supplies once it goes through the border and blocks it so the commodities prices would remain high enough to keep the tunnels and smuggling operation profitable (operations that are solely ran and profited by hamas).
The entire arab world is filled with corrupted dictators. this is not israel fault in the neighbouring countries and its not israel fault in gaza as well.
Listen to what you're saying! That makes no fucking sense!  You're just repeating what your state is telling you without processing it, or even bothering to make it into a cohesive narrative. 

You claim is that Hamas is causing the starvation, because they are blocking food going into Gaza to keep prices high.  Meanwhile, your own government is shutting down the tunnels used to smuggle food in, and you say it's because those tunnels are also used to kidnap and kill Israelis.  Fine, that makes sense, many people think a state should protect its own citizens over others.   You say that letting materials into Gaza would result in more tunnels.  Again, fine, flawed in that the tunnels are mostly carved from bare stone, or punching through the foundations of old buildings, but I can see why you'd believe that.  However, why are the tunnels built?  To bring in materials!  Food mostly, and fuel secondly.  Why are they needed?  Because Israel is blocking all other access.

That doesn't sound to me like it's Hamas blocking the food supplies.

Also, what the hell is Hamas supposed to do with money in Gaza, if there is nothing to buy there and the population is totally isolated?  Spending the money outside Gaza would lead to Gaza rapidly running out of money to buy food with, and spending it within Gaza makes no sense since they have a military rule there anyway.

Its hamas that is starving its own people and is forcing israel to bomb their terrorists so it wouldn't target our innocent civilians. don't confuse results and causes.
Why on earth would they do that?  Shooting your civilians because they want to get bombed?
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Helgoland

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5305 on: July 15, 2014, 12:35:04 pm »

Draxis, Israel is actually providing humanitarian aid - including food supplies - to Gaza...
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Draxis

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5306 on: July 15, 2014, 12:43:10 pm »

Got a source for that?  That would be good to see, but I don't know anything about it, and people who at least claim to have been in Gaza seem to consistantly say that there is nothing coming in legally except some medicine and fuel, with food entering only through the tunnels from Egypt, or occasionally by boat, ever since some time early this year when Egypt closed the border.  Of course there are farms inside as well, but there are even more people than those can support.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 12:45:43 pm by Draxis »
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Descan

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5307 on: July 15, 2014, 12:46:30 pm »

People don't support a terrorist organization for shits and giggles. So either Hamas is not a terrorist organization, OR the Gazan's feel like they have no choice but to support Hamas as a terrorist organization. Or they don't know that Hamas is a terrorist organization, which I find highly unlikely to be the case.

And, as an organization that uses suicide bombings and rockets, they would need the support of Gazan civilians to survive at all, or they'd run out of rockets, engineers, and bombers.

So from my point of view, I don't think the treatment of Gaza by the Israelis has nothing to do with the Gazan support of Hamas. I think that the Gazans are desperate, and Israel can do a lot more to fix the rocket attacks coming in by helping the Gazans and lifting the blockade than they can by bombing the ever-loving shit out of Gaza.
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Zangi

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5308 on: July 15, 2014, 12:58:54 pm »

So... if I got this straight.

Gazans are blocked in, cause of Hamas' doings.  (Nevermind the fact that Israel is the one who set it up, because the people of Israel are worth more then Gazans.)
Gazans do not have enough food cause of Hamas' doings.  (Israel actively prevents all smuggling, because Hamas smuggles in stuff other then food/medicine/fuel.)
Gazans are bombed by Israel cause of Hamas' doings.  (Israel can't be arsed that they are killing innocent civilians because their own innocent civilians might die if they don't, Israel people are worth more then Gazans.)
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SharpKris

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!
« Reply #5309 on: July 15, 2014, 01:30:41 pm »

Got a source for that? 

<-- right here mate *artillery unit 405 officer*

if you have specific questions then hit me up here and i'll answer you as best i can.
and yea we started the ceasefire and respected the hell out of it
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