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[ECrownofFire]

You are not distributing the content to specific people. You are distributing the content to random arbitrary people, instead of random arbitrary content.

Hm... would you mind explaining that part a bit better, cause i don't really understand what you are trying to say.

With TOR, you have no idea what you're distributing. With torrenting, you have no idea who you're distributing to. Not a huge leap of logic the way I see it.

[G-Flex]

With TOR, you aren't distributing anything at all. You're providing a method of communication to use in order to get whatever information it is you're getting. You might as well say that a telephone line serves up phone sex calls; providing a means of communication is not the same as providing data.

[ECrownofFire]

With TOR, you aren't distributing anything at all. You're providing a method of communication to use in order to get whatever information it is you're getting. You might as well say that a telephone line serves up phone sex calls; providing a means of communication is not the same as providing data.

The principle is still the same either way. You are providing people a way to access random arbitrary data with TOR, and you are providing random arbitrary people with access to data with torrenting.

[Rift]

Sidenote: Given that your not defending yourself to a courtroom, why do you care that strongly if its legal or not. If you really care you should actually talk to a lawyer, not a messageboard.

If you actually want to have a meaningful discussions you should instead ask if:
a) Should it be legal/illegal [regardless of whether it is]
or even better:
b) Is it right/wrong in a moral sence to do this.

as to the actual OP:

There will be no discussion on this. The Paradox forum has a zero-tolerance policy regarding piracy, and any mentioning of torrenting a non-legal copy is forbidden.

You have bought the game via Steam, so your license ONLY applies to the Steam game you get via YOUR Steam launcher.

Its entirely possible this is true? You could very well have a agreement with steam/paradox regarding how you will use the content.. whether or not that is legally binding in your country might be a interesting question, but the actual fact they have a policy on their forums to discuss torrenting paradox games in a against their licence way, seems... um.. normal?

I would think that if you emailed steam they would either fix or refund you for your purchance.

[Soulwynd]

It's possible yes. A lot of steam games have extra files or a slightly modified executable in order to work properly with steam, so technically, it's not exactly the same as a non-steam copy.

[Farseer]

There will be no discussion on this. The Paradox forum has a zero-tolerance policy regarding piracy, and any mentioning of torrenting a non-legal copy is forbidden.

You have bought the game via Steam, so your license ONLY applies to the Steam game you get via YOUR Steam launcher.

Its entirely possible this is true? You could very well have a agreement with steam/paradox regarding how you will use the content.. whether or not that is legally binding in your country might be a interesting question, but the actual fact they have a policy on their forums to discuss torrenting paradox games in a against their licence way, seems... um.. normal?

I would think that if you emailed steam they would either fix or refund you for your purchance.

I don't think it's true. I've checked all the EULAs (and asked the mod to direct me to them) and I can't find jackshit on it. I think he was bullshitting to shut me up. :p

[G-Flex]

With TOR, you aren't distributing anything at all. You're providing a method of communication to use in order to get whatever information it is you're getting. You might as well say that a telephone line serves up phone sex calls; providing a means of communication is not the same as providing data.

The principle is still the same either way. You are providing people a way to access random arbitrary data with TOR, and you are providing random arbitrary people with access to data with torrenting.

This is bullshit. This is equivalent to saying that giving prescription drugs to random people on the street is the same as giving people a car with which to go out and buy it from someone else.

I don't think it's true. I've checked all the EULAs (and asked the mod to direct me to them) and I can't find jackshit on it. I think he was bullshitting to shut me up. :p

As far as I know, it's implicitly true. The product as sold via Steam is not necessarily the exact same product as sold somewhere else. You're buying a license to play the game through Steam, not to get every other port and distribution you can get your hands on. The Steam service itself also has certain restrictions which apply to the software you purchase from there specifically; have you read their service agreement? There's also the fact that Steam has built-in DRM (and whatever other measures of content control, supervision, and whatnot) that you would in fact be subverting by downloading a standalone copy, and that isn't legal either.

Steam is a service providing you access to software for a fee; by paying this fee, you do not "own" the software, you're paying Steam to allow you to play it via their service, on their terms. This is not the same as buying the retail version of a game, losing it, and then downloading another copy of that retail version (which may or may not be legal, but is certainly at least justifiable).

[Soadreqm]

Bootleg DVDs are illegal no matter if the people you're SELLING them to have a legal copy or not. Same with giving away DVDs for free. You are not distributing the content to specific people. You are distributing the content to random arbitrary people, instead of random arbitrary content.

Nope, I don't think so. Assuming that your clients already own every bootleg DVD you're selling them, it seems to me that you are merely providing them with the service of manufacturing completely legal backup copies. All perfectly legal and orderly. In Finland, at least.

[Shadowlord]

Assuming that your clients already own every bootleg DVD you're selling them, it seems to me that you are merely providing them with the service of manufacturing completely legal backup copies. All perfectly legal and orderly.

I see: Your argument is so powerful that it doesn't NEED to make sense or bear any relation to reality.



This thread has already been Godwinned - and lately has been drowning in a raging debate about the ethics of maritime software piracy ever since some trolls wrested it away from a discussion about camouflage. Dear thread: WHY! WON'T! YOU! DIE!

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Simple, its the inverse thread life theory at work. The more people say the thread should end the longer the thread will last barring admin interference.

[freeformschooler]

This thread has already been Godwinned - and lately has been drowning in a raging debate about the ethics of maritime software piracy ever since some trolls wrested it away from a discussion about camouflage. Dear thread: WHY! WON'T! YOU! DIE!

Remember: Software piracy WAS the original topic. Anyway, I think you're coming at this wrong, but admittedly, this thread is pretty quickly devolving. Why can't anyone just have an intelligent discussion about piracy and/or the lack thereof and the effects it has unto software without it turning into:

"LOL PIRATES ARE LIKE GOING INTO A CD STORE AND STEALING"
"LOL PIRATES ARE HELPING THE ECONOMY"
"I AM A MEDIA PRODUCER AND BECAUSE OF THIS YOU ARE ALL WRONG"
"^^^THIS GUY IS STUPID AND HERE'S A WALL OF TEXT EXPLAINING WHY"
"BAWWWWW"

Et cetera.
Of course, being B12, we managed not to get that far, but that's essentially what it boils down to, on the internet. Maybe this thread is, indeed, better off left dead, now.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

 Yes probably, we have all the arguments and now its devolved into a kids fight of yelling "I'M RIGHT" then someone yelling "NO I'M RIGHT" and so on.

[Rakonas]

Yes probably, we have all the arguments and now its devolved into a kids fight of yelling "I'M RIGHT" then someone yelling "NO I'M RIGHT" and so on.

That's a complete lie. This thread is entirely legitimate and not at all devolved, you neonazi.

[Soadreqm]

I see: Your argument is so powerful that it doesn't NEED to make sense or bear any relation to reality.

Yes I am glad you agree.

Well, it bears some relation to reality. According to Finnish copyright law, manufacturing copies for personal use is legal. So is having someone else to manufacture a copy of something you own for you. If you own a DVD, and are acquiring a copy of it for your own use by buying a DVD someone copied from an identical DVD that he owns, I'm not really sure what law is being broken.

I can't be arsed to go look for related images, so just mentally insert here an adorable animal bearing a witty caption. Perhaps the animal links to a TVTropes article.

[G-Flex]

Well, it bears some relation to reality. According to Finnish copyright law, manufacturing copies for personal use is legal. So is having someone else to manufacture a copy of something you own for you. If you own a DVD, and are acquiring a copy of it for your own use by buying a DVD someone copied from an identical DVD that he owns, I'm not really sure what law is being broken.

This does not mean that:

• It is legal for you to distribute copies of a DVD to random people with no actual regard for whether or not they own it themselves.
• It is legal for you to distribute (or accept) copies of a movie, piece of software, or other media when you purchased it under a completely different service, terms, and licensing scheme.