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[Omegastick]

On the point of music sales decreasing: It simply means that bands will have to tour and do concerts more, make themselves heard, rather than sitting in a recording studio getting fat checks for little work. They may be able to afford one less (out of their twelve they have already) car, but I don't find that too bad.

The record company's current business relies on people being big hits or busting, and throwing lawyers at anyone who tries to cross them, but in doing so halts progress in alternative methods of making money. After all, why bother coming up with new ideas when you can simply litigate your old profit-making methods into long standing arrangements?

I will have you know that musicians like myself and my family work incredibly hard at making music and doing gigs and we still don't make anywhere near the money that you claim we do. Piracy is killing music, we don't get enough income because of it and end up having to get other sources of income and as such not being able to do what we love as much, producing music.

What is so hard about buying a 0.79p song or a £7.99 album? Are you really so poor that you can't afford it?

[Farseer]

I will have you know that musicians like myself and my family work incredibly hard at making music and doing gigs and we still don't make anywhere near the money that you claim we do. Piracy is killing music, we don't get enough income because of it and end up having to get other sources of income and as such not being able to do what we love as much, producing music.

What is so hard about buying a 0.79p song or a £7.99 album? Are you really so poor that you can't afford it?

If you're getting pirated, go onto torrent sites and say, "Guys, I understand times are hard, but I do get a bit of cash from each sale. Please, if you like the music, buy our albums so we have enough to live on."

Don't rage, don't flip out, don't accuse. Come off looking like the good guy and you should get a massive spike in sales.

[Gantolandon]

I will have you know that musicians like myself and my family work incredibly hard at making music and doing gigs and we still don't make anywhere near the money that you claim we do. Piracy is killing music, we don't get enough income because of it and end up having to get other sources of income and as such not being able to do what we love as much, producing music.

Please tell us then, what does your family produce - then we can look if it is pirated at all. Scanning for the number of torrents would definitely say something, wouldn't it?

[Shades]

I will have you know that musicians like myself and my family work incredibly hard at making music and doing gigs and we still don't make anywhere near the money that you claim we do. Piracy is killing music, we don't get enough income because of it and end up having to get other sources of income and as such not being able to do what we love as much, producing music.

What is so hard about buying a 0.79p song or a £7.99 album? Are you really so poor that you can't afford it?

No. There is zero evidence that people who pirate would have bought the thing they pirated. In fact there is a good chance (incidental evidence, but still no studies) that the opposite is true for lesser known musicians or developers.

Don't even pretend that anything is killing music when each year total worldwide music profits have increased, despite the vast sums wasted on both legal fees and protections (which clearly aren't working).

I'm sure your working hard, and I'm sure whatever cut of your hard work you get isn't a huge amount but this has nothing to do with piracy.

Edit: seems I'm wrong, there is studies (as well as a tonne of incidental examples):
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ippd-dppi.nsf/eng/h_ip01456.html


http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/05/piracy-again.html
One authors take on the piracy issue, Personalyl I find his q and a section amusing

Q: Piracy is immoral, and illegal. We need to spread awareness, then people will stop doing it.

A: Sure... that's how religion was able to successfully put a halt to masturbation, pre-marital and extra-marital sex. And why the US successfully won the war on drugs.

[vikingefar]

I will have you know that musicians like myself and my family work incredibly hard at making music and doing gigs and we still don't make anywhere near the money that you claim we do. Piracy is killing music, we don't get enough income because of it and end up having to get other sources of income and as such not being able to do what we love as much, producing music.

What is so hard about buying a 0.79p song or a £7.99 album? Are you really so poor that you can't afford it?

Well being a musician myself, and having supported p2p services since i first had a product i felt confident for others to consume, i can say that you are totally wrong. Every time i have made something of mine freely availible on the net using p2p or other services, it has generated liveshows, fans, and even loyalists. I am no bigname artist, i would reckon i only have a user base of around 200 people, but stilll, those people come to my shows, which i get paid for, and they send me love in the form of PMs and other stuff. You are just pissed that nobody resonates with your bands output, and that is tough, but spewing banther will not help the slightest, and piracy has nothing to do with it, unless you can proove otherwise.

[dennislp3]

I know more people that end up buying stuff they pirated then I do people who just buy stuff...Lots of times if a game is still being updated and all it can be a pain to find the latest crack and all that crap...if they like it enough and they know it they will simply buy it to avoid all that hassle...

[Rakonas]

The argument of "Are you really that poor that you need to-" Is completely ridiculous. For one, people who torrent an album wouldn't necessarily buy it. Secondly, and probably more importantly to the vast majority, acquiring a large quantity of music is something that's ridiculously expensive in total. Additionally, I'd gladly pay an artist for their work, but in most cases having there be a middleman taking the majority of the profit is unsettling.
On a related note, isn't there some kind of segment of copyrighting law that makes students torrenting school textbooks legal? I vaguely remember reading this, and it makes a ton of sense.

[freeformschooler]

The argument of "Are you really that poor that you need to-" Is completely ridiculous. For one, people who torrent an album wouldn't necessarily buy it. Secondly, and probably more importantly to the vast majority, acquiring a large quantity of music is something that's ridiculously expensive in total. Additionally, I'd gladly pay an artist for their work, but in most cases having there be a middleman taking the majority of the profit is unsettling.
On a related note, isn't there some kind of segment of copyrighting law that makes students torrenting school textbooks legal? I vaguely remember reading this, and it makes a ton of sense.

RE: School textbook. I did some googling and haven't found any laws that specifically made torrenting textbooks legal. I did find some articles that said there was a little bit more leeway allowed to E-book device companies making textbooks available than other books and forms of media.

Anyway, I can't really say anything about the music discussion either way except to agree that, yes, piracy != lost sales. As has already been said several times, if someone pirates something, that doesn't mean they would have bought it if they didn't. Piracy of many works makes me feel a little sick inside so I try to avoid it (one of the reasons I don't have a vast media library of any sort), but I'll bring up an example from one of my friends: they pirated Photoshop. Now, they were not a college student nor anyone needing it for their work -- they just wanted to have a very nice raster editing program. It was simply not within their budget to buy the version of Photoshop they specifically had wanted (none of that "lite" Elements stuff), so they would not have been able to spent thousands of dollars to buy the program, had they not pirated it. Is that a lost sale? No. Does it represent the population as a whole? Hard to say but more likely also no. I'd say that Adobe didn't lose any money from this.

[ZaZ]

While downloading a backup copy of a game you purchased is legal doing it through bittorrent is now specifically because you are not only downloading the copy you are uploading it to other people at the same time. What most people get caught for isn't pirating a game its illegal distribution of it to other people.

[Majestic7]

I will have you know that musicians like myself and my family work incredibly hard at making music and doing gigs and we still don't make anywhere near the money that you claim we do. Piracy is killing music, we don't get enough income because of it and end up having to get other sources of income and as such not being able to do what we love as much, producing music.

What is so hard about buying a 0.79p song or a £7.99 album? Are you really so poor that you can't afford it?

Bullshit. Piracy is not killing music. Musicians are making more money than ever - it is just coming mainly from gigs and direct sales, not album sales:
http://boingboing.net/2009/11/13/labels-may-be-losing.html

Plus RIAA accounting makes sure very few musicians make good money, no matter how much they sell:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml

If you really believe in that piracy stick, you are being blindfolded. It isn't what is threatening your occupation. Regarding music being sold in general, I'll repeat this link I posted earlier on this very same thread:
http://torrentfreak.com/more-music-sold-than-ever-before-despite-piracy-110110/

[Capntastic]

It's not beating up a poor old chocolate shopkeeper and taking his money, goods, and wife.

I never said it was, and I specifically said that I was arguing against Farseer's points on grounds of his actions being dickish, and completely ignoring the legal aspect.  The argument seems to have devolved into the typical "pro/anti piracy" whinefest it always does rather than the original topic which is "Is it dumb to post about pirating on the company's forum".  The thread is about a matter of being a polite pirate, rather than being one at all.

Edit:  Some people in this thread, for example, can't form a sentence without calling someone a nazi, and even if their points are 100% valid and correct they still come off as irrational, hatefilled, and childish.

[Majestic7]

I never said it was, and I specifically said that I was arguing against Farseer's points on grounds of his actions being dickish, and completely ignoring the legal aspect.  The argument seems to have devolved into the typical "pro/anti piracy" whinefest it always does rather than the original topic which is "Is it dumb to post about pirating on the company's forum".  The thread is about a matter of being a polite pirate, rather than being one at all.

So piracy is a little like Puritan sex. Everyone does it but nobody should talk about it or ever acknowledge it exists.

[Capntastic]

Nope, you should just have the decency and common sense and social awareness to know not to talk about pirating music when you're talking to the band themself.

[Majestic7]

I'd likely tell them "dudes, I downloaded your album X and liked it, so I then went and bought it". Someone should make a study on how people come to buy what they buy in cultural products. It would be interesting to know how much piracy influences actual purchase decisions.

Edit: Where has anyone called anyone nazi? I must have missed those posts. I think the discussion has been pretty civil, though I only got in on page six and skimmed the few first pages. Someone just said Paradox moderators are fascists; it has nothing to do with participants in this discussion.

[Leafsnail]

While downloading a backup copy of a game you purchased is legal doing it through bittorrent is now specifically because you are not only downloading the copy you are uploading it to other people at the same time. What most people get caught for isn't pirating a game its illegal distribution of it to other people.

I think we've established that it's possible to torrent something without uploading.  Although then pirates will get annoyed at you for leeching... :/.