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Author Topic: How to go about Fortressing  (Read 529 times)

DaneAxe

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How to go about Fortressing
« on: January 08, 2011, 05:35:16 am »

Greetings fellow !!Dwarf Enthusiasts!!

I've finally gotten to a point where I feel competent enough in DF to give voice to my mad mutterings and contribute like a dwarf dodging into the central channel of a 80z level central staircase: highly likely but often unintentionally and entirely by accident, ending in a mess.

Dig forth onto my topic!

After having built and abandoned/lost all my forts to incompetency, dwarfish intelligence (DI) and/or hostilities Fun, I've finally found a location that just challenging enough to be exciting and yet has everything a dwarf could ever dream of. Unlike most of my embarks which seem to have just ~10z levels of clear digging space before caverns and the lot begin to infringe on my layouts, resulting in very compacted forts based around central staircases. Now there's an amazing 40 before the first cavern and over a 100 to the magma sea!

I've never had this much untainted underground space before! I want to craft from it a fortress to put Moria to shame. Combined with my current need to focus on a single fort long term (10+ years) I've hit a stumbling block. How do I plan this out?

So this is where I ask for everyone’s input: How do you approach a site?

Do you have an order of what to dig out first and do you have a layout planned for each stage? Do you reserve some layers to specific things or columns through the layers for future builds (e.g pump stacks)? Or is one more prone to just go hap-hazard at it, looking only for the nearest precious vein?

For me an my central staircase builds (that I want to get away from) go something like this:
1. First stone layer under soil (0z) - make temporary domatory, dinning hall, stockpile & crafting room. Taken over as Military layer as things develop.
2. Dig out Stockpiles (-1z) & Workshops (-2z) layers below to get most industries up and running save food and smithing related.
3. Dig out Farm (-3z), channelled reservoirs (-3z to -4) and irrigation from nearest water source
4. Build accommodation: standard (-6z) & Nobles + Offices (-7z). Reserve -8z for Mayor/Kings Chambers
5. Build massive dining hall (-9z to last layer before caverns) + food industry on last layer in separate chambers
6. Work on above ground defences & magma related industries.
7. Develop underground plantation/forest (soil layers +1/2z) and bolt any other fancies around this.

It just isn't Dwarfy enough anymore. Need fresh ideas on how go about this and what additional features people have!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 08:44:40 am by DaneAxe »
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shlorf

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Re: How to go about Fortressing
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 08:06:35 am »

The underground farm doesn't have to be on soil, muddied rock is fine.
I've had every fort until my current die to fps death. On this fort i used spiral ramps and everything is still fine after almost 20 years in. Granted i did optimize the layout to help the unavoidable hauling (harvesting, booze and food hauling) have easy pathing calculations.
Or did you mean above ground farm as the last point (would make more sense).
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Dutchling

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Re: How to go about Fortressing
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 08:24:55 am »

I always try to have the same pattern everywhere,
my current pattern is this



this is just the pattern, it isn't build like that, but it shows how versatile it is.
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Ibid Straydrink

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Re: How to go about Fortressing
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 08:31:17 am »

Greetings fellow !!Dwarf Enthusiasts!!

I've finally gotten to a point where I feel competent enough in DF to give voice to my mad mutterings and contribute like a dwarf dodging into the central channel of a 80z level central staircase: highly likely but often unintentionally and entirely by accident, ending in a mess.

Dig forth onto my topic!

After having built and abandoned/lost all my forts to incompetency, dwarfish intelligence (DI) and/or hostilities Fun, I've finally found a location that just challenging enough to be exciting and yet has everything a dwarf could ever dream of. Unlike most of my embarks which seem to have just ~10z levels of clear digging space before caverns and the lot begin to infringe on my layouts, resulting in very compacted forts based around central staircases. Now there's an amazing 40 before the first cavern and over a 100 to the magma sea!

I've never had this much untainted underground space before! I want to craft from it a fortress to put Moria to shame. Combined with my current need to focus on a single fort long term (10+ years) I've hit a stumbling block. How do I plan this out?

So this is where I ask for everyone’s input: How do you approach a site?

Do you have an order of what to dig out first and do you have a layout planned for each stage? Do you reserve some layers to specific things or columns through the layers for future builds (e.g pump stacks)? Or is one more prone to just go hap-hazard at it, looking only for the nearest precious vein?

For me an my central staircase builds (that I want to get away from) go something like this:
1. First stone layer under soil (0z) - make temporary domatory, dinning hall, stockpile & crafting room. Taken over as Military layer as things develop.
2. Dig out Stockpiles (-1z) & Workshops (-2z) layers below to get most industries up and running save food and smithing related.
3. Dig out Farm (-3z), channelled reservoirs (-3z to -4) and irrigation from nearest water source
4. Build accommodation: standard (-6z) & Nobles + Offices (-7z). Reserve -8z for Mayor/Kings Chambers
5. Build massive dining hall (-9z to last layer before caverns) + food industry on last layer in separate chambers
6. Work on above ground defences & magma related industries.
7. Develop underground farm (soil layers +1/2z) and bolt any other fancies around this.

It just isn't Dwarfy enough anymore. Need fresh ideas on how go about this and what additional features people have!

I prefer mountainous embarks on the edge of forests and hills, near a good brook or stream. First, I find a suitable "gate" and delve straight into the mountain, carving an ornate passageway that leads to the first chamber.

The first chamber, or "entry chamber" is one that will hold a bridge above a pit, which will later be filled with water or lava and and carved for drainage. If the entry chamber is high enough, it can double as a reservoir for lava until you decide to unleash it on a siege force.

Beyond the entry chamber is the "gatehouse," which is usually two the levels. The first is another opulent room with stairways leading upward and downward. Below are the training rooms for the militia, and above their barracks.

A hatched-off exit up from the gatehouse leads to the "atrium." This serves as a central plaza for my fortress. The meeting hall(s) are always nearby, and the majority of non-noble dwarves usually live on this level. A reservoir beneath the plaza allows me to place a convenient well.

Farms and stockpiles are usually below the plaza level, along with workshops. A couple z-levels up are more residential complexes, followed by the upper-class accommodations.


I have recently, however, abandoned my dwarves and taken to favoring humans with an extra 8000 embark points worth of free stone to avoid the deep-rooted anxiety and mania followed by manic depression and finally suicidal thoughts I suffer from having a fortress comprised of too colors.


If you are healthy enough for it, here is what I suggest: First and foremost, build a temporary stockpile (in soil if you have it) to keep your food safe. Now dig in to the point where you would like your first/central meeting hall. Throw up some dorms nearby, while working on a reservoir and farm space. Flood those farms and get started on your barracks/danger. While all of this is going on, I usually just place workshops in the atrium with stockpiles below. Once the above are done, it's a good time to starting working on traps, getting a bridge setup, designating some dedicated militia dwarves, and preparing more homes for the excessive amount of migrants. After that, offices and such. Admittedly, I've never stayed with a fortress passed 120 dwarves. Too slow, with too much to manage at that point.

This is why I now play "Elf Forest." >>



- Ibid
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“I am the spirit that negates. And rightly so, for all that comes to be. Deserves to perish wretchedly; 'Twere better nothing would begin."

DaneAxe

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Re: How to go about Fortressing
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 09:19:39 am »

The underground farm doesn't have to be on soil, muddied rock is fine.
I've had every fort until my current die to fps death. On this fort i used spiral ramps and everything is still fine after almost 20 years in. Granted i did optimize the layout to help the unavoidable hauling (harvesting, booze and food hauling) have easy pathing calculations.
Or did you mean above ground farm as the last point (would make more sense).

Appologies, ment Plantation/Forest (Modified in OP). Learnt in my earlier fortresses that its a mighty bad idea to have wood cutters outside in later years due to the phenominon 'Death of Haulers'

I've used a very similar pattern to you Dutchling though with each block on the corner (NW,NE,SW,SE) of the central staircase like so for my standard/lower nobels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Generally I never have much room to dig upwards due to my choice in site but I do like the idea of having the less industrial areas near the peak of the moiuntains. Also do like the retracting magma bridge as a defensive mechanism inside the entrance... Might even be tempted to use it to Obsidian cast the entrance to seal off my fortress from the work entirely once I hit my population cap (keep it at ~85. With last wave of migrants and children I usually get just over a 100)
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