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Author Topic: Proceedurally Generated RTS  (Read 57010 times)

winner

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 01:25:24 pm »

 It is very fun to watch now. However the buttons cannot be clicked when they are overlaid with the range circle.
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Armok

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 01:55:02 pm »

watching a few of those I get the feeling speed would be a much greater advantage if they were smart enough to do more manoeuvres to keep themselves from getting trapped in corners.
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Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 02:24:16 pm »

watching a few of those I get the feeling speed would be a much greater advantage if they were smart enough to do more manoeuvres to keep themselves from getting trapped in corners.

It's a 30 line AI, what do you want from me? :P
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Korbac

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 02:31:23 pm »

This is fantastic! A strategy game where each player gets a random selection of units to construct (balanced, of course with cost / power) could be supremely awesome - Good work Draco18s!  :D
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Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2011, 02:53:22 pm »

I figure each side would have the same units available.  So its not like the player would have one set and the AI the other.

AI War was so much more balanced when it didn't have Guardians.  Not to bash them, but seriously, there are too many.
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Nivim

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2011, 03:01:16 pm »

 I noticed you did program in a missile escaping behavior. I keep seeing it at the end of high-movement versus slow-missile rounds where the high movement side ~wins (but can still be reduced or wiped out from remnant fire, because of corner ignorance).

 It looks like it could possibly make a good game, but▬ beware the gray shapeless blob that is balance▬ the gameplay is going to be kinda flat unless you add attributes that can change the rules, rather than being just numbers. *Sees new post.* Even if you'd prefer that each side start with the same kinds of units, don't you think it would be better to allow the player(s)(and AI{s}) to acquire different ones as the game progresses? If so, you might limit most of the game-changing attributes to such units.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 04:08:58 am by Nivm »
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Korbac

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2011, 03:50:38 pm »

A list of several such attributes might be:

Flight
Artillery (Indirect fire over long distances)
Inclusion of self regenerating shields
Bullets which lower enemy speed
Etc.
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Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2011, 03:58:11 pm »

Oh, full fledged game there'd be more than what I've done here.  Special abilities, ammo types, armor types, etc.
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Armok

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2011, 03:58:37 pm »

I think this kind of thing would go well with...

* having a very large number of units to chose from
* Each unit type having many more and wider spread attributes than a normal RTS
* Some attributes being hidden, and some not. Actually, rather than hidden or not hidden there could be stuff like hidden to the opponent but not the player able to build them, hidden until the unit is tested in actual combat, etc.
* "secret weapon" type units, with extremely high cost per unit and many uncertainties but a slight chance of being gamebreakingly powerful.
* a "rigid attachment" type mechanic, locking multiple units into a single larger structure. Just like you physically glued them together, they wouldn't actually merge into a single unit.
* Special abilities being implemented as stats that are zero or near zero for almost all units.
* Normal distributions for abilities, meaning very rarely would get units with ridiculously high values for somehting.

Also, remember much of normal balancing concerns would be invalid or reversed for somehting like this: just because someone can be dealt a strictly very good or very bad hand doesn't make the game flawed, in fact it can add a dimension to it. What units you can make is just part of the randomized starting conditions rather than a fixed part of the game itself changes the way they are constructed fundamentally.

NINJAEDIT: I got the impression this was more space or naval based(?) so that makes no sense.
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winner

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2011, 04:02:41 pm »

One AI that is needed is for them to always target the closest enemy, the kiteing ships always keep a good distance from their target but often get shot down by an enemy they ignored.
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Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2011, 04:09:09 pm »

NINJAEDIT: I got the impression this was more space or naval based(?) so that makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense?

And it doesn't have to be space or naval based, but it is easier (no pathing).

Also the ideas you bulleted I've already thought about.  Special abilities will be pretty much yes/no and not integer levels.

One AI that is needed is for them to always target the closest enemy, the kiteing ships always keep a good distance from their target but often get shot down by an enemy they ignored.

They target a random enemy "in range" and stick with that target until its dead.  I could put in a distance sort and pick closest, but they'll still ignore a target that closes with them.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 04:10:57 pm by Draco18s »
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Omegastick

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2011, 04:55:33 pm »

You should have some units with lower stats (I don't know what your formula is, but lower the outcome of it a bit) that acts like a hive-mind, with everyone attacking the same enemy.
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Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2011, 05:04:06 pm »

You should have some units with lower stats (I don't know what your formula is, but lower the outcome of it a bit) that acts like a hive-mind, with everyone attacking the same enemy.

Coordinated attacks are tricky, as it requires each unit to check what every other unit is doing.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2011, 06:26:47 pm »

This would work well with a 'junk' faction in a space RTS which builds their ships from spare parts and debris fields, so you never know what the stats will be on the next unit out of the gate.
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Draco18s

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Re: Proceedurally Generated RTS
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2011, 07:22:11 pm »

Hehehe.

I'm currently running a separate simulation to determine if I can automatically find a triangle of three ships that are Rock, Paper, and Scissors to each other.

Right now it gens two units, runs an accelerated version of what you've already seen, and determines a winner.  It regens the loser and fights again.  Every unique winner is pushed into an array.

The last printout I had (ran until I had 5 winners) ended up with each successive winner having a greater range than the previous.  I.E. kiting behavior trumps all.
(Next printout of 10 units had shorter range ones win over long range ones, so it's not a perfect ace)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 07:24:11 pm by Draco18s »
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