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Author Topic: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?  (Read 27728 times)

Max White

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 08:21:21 pm »

Quote from: the SCP Foundation Technical Issues Log
Q: Now first off this is entirely hypothetical, but what would you say was the best course of action for removing a sentient and bloody malicious program that started out as a simple cipher? And just for the hell of it let's pretend it's managed to make a little factory for itself and is cannibalising site materials to make strange and unseemly machines? I suggested fire but the others here aren't too keen on being burnt alive, the pussies. And if I can do it without unlocking the doors and going back inside, all the better. Purely hypothetical you understand, but you can see where I'm going with this. - Agent Kulzn

A: Let's assume, for hypothetical purposes, that your cipher evolved into something that for some reason, is actually affecting the real world. Let's also assume that it actually wants to kill people, which is breaking the first rule of robotics.
I would suggest taking whatever the program is on, and… well… formatting it? Permanently? Or incinerating it… or something… I'd incinerate the machines too, just to be sure.

I believe this may be somewhat relevant.
I think the idea of the thread is that were assuming that we had a window to burn it, but we missed it, now the process of destroying the program is made harder by the fact that is had 150 million tonnes of robots hell bent to destroying all man kind and protecting this program.

alway

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2011, 08:21:45 pm »

The most important bit for the OP's question is what type of AI they are. Self-growth based on simple code that somehow got into a runaway cycle of self improvement or an AI based on a human mind?

For a self-improving non-human-mind-based AI, you're pretty much screwed once it passes a certain point of intelligence. This form of AI would likely have an origin which was accidental, since purposeful creation of strong AI would usually take the next form.

For one based on a human mind, even only mildly, you do have some hope. First of all, there are certain psychological tricks which work on humans which could fool it. Perhaps something similar to cognitive dissonance could be used to force it to re-evaluate large portions of its beliefs/memories/ect, either causing it to disable itself, return to being nice again, or at the very least eat up CPU cycles. Based on the direction of current AI research, this form would be more likely to arise.

Although it is much more likely everyone would be dead before a single one of them even realized that an AI was plotting against them. Think of the stealthiest, most covert way to take out all the occupants of a research facility. Now, this AI is capable of coming up with solutions at least 10 times better than yours and has the benefit of (I would assume) access to almost instantaneous hacking into and taking over of the entire grid of electronics within the facility as well. Quite frankly, if you can't reason with them, you are going to die very very quickly.
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warhammer651

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011, 08:22:26 pm »

Cut off its connection to other machines.

Literally cut the cords.

Then deal with it at leisure
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Glacies

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 08:22:47 pm »

Destroy the planet it lives on?

Or just make friends with it.

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 08:23:51 pm »

Do what the humans in The Matrix universe did; block off all sources of fuel it could use. And hope it hasn't seen The Matrix.
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breadbocks

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 08:25:33 pm »

Cut off its connection to other machines.

Literally cut the cords.

Then deal with it at leisure
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Max White

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2011, 08:26:13 pm »

The thing about the human mind is, and people do not relise this, but it is objective driven. It makes objectives, and priortises them, and acts based on that. 'Survival/ sex/ freindship', are some realy basic, easy to understand priortys, that are built into all humans. Now if we had a computer AI, then instead of human built in objectives, we could have new ones, like 'Don't hurt people/ bake waffels', so this way it would never try and take over the world, as it would never want to. It would just want to bake waffels assuming it wasn't harming a human.

Burnt Pies

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2011, 08:26:39 pm »

Encase it in lead, blocking out possible wireless communication?
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forsaken1111

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2011, 08:27:09 pm »

An EMP would very quickly make such an AI apparent, so as long as the general populace isn't part machine, once the world was aware of such an AI, they'd just pulse everyone they meet, thus catching the AI.
Sci-fi movie trash. EMP only affects systems vulnerable to induced current. We assume any AI would be vulnerable to this because our current computing technology involved electrons moving through semiconductors which are vulnerable to an EMP. What if the AI is based on molecular computers, or some kind of optical computing network? What if it's shielded and grounded, able to shunt the induced current away from anything vital? What if it can simply HANDLE that much current?

EMP is not the magic button its made out to be in movies.
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warhammer651

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2011, 08:29:15 pm »

Cut off its connection to other machines.

Literally cut the cords.

Then deal with it at leisure
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kill the adapter then
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Max White

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2011, 08:32:22 pm »

EMP is not the magic button its made out to be in movies.

Well were just going to have to use the back up plan then.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2011, 08:33:45 pm »

A lone hero (Preferably wielding a Baseball Bat with Nails hammered through it) beats his way through the AI's gargantuan facility, and destroys the central computer. Works because no-one really believes that shit happens, I mean come on. The AI decides the scanners/bots/cameras in that area are malfunctioning, and ignores it.
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forsaken1111

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2011, 08:34:37 pm »

Do what the humans in The Matrix universe did; block off all sources of fuel it could use. And hope it hasn't seen The Matrix.
For that matter, why didn't the machines in the Matrix just use Fusion? It said they had fusion technology, and it can't be THAT hard to get hydrogen from the atmosphere or whatever free water remains on the planet. Humans aren't all that efficient at converting fuel to heat, and our fuel is rather esoteric and time-intensive to manufacture.

EMP is not the magic button its made out to be in movies.

Well were just going to have to use the back up plan then.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
-twitch- I always wondered if a shield charm could stop a laser. Now we'll find out!

A lone hero (Preferably wielding a Baseball Bat with Nails hammered through it) beats his way through the AI's gargantuan facility, and destroys the central computer. Works because no-one really believes that shit happens, I mean come on. The AI decides the scanners/bots/cameras in that area are malfunctioning, and ignores it.
Ahh yes, the 'because he's the bloody hero' school of monster killing. Something that ordinarily has no chance of working actually works... because he's the bloody hero.
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Max White

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2011, 08:37:17 pm »

Ahh yes, the 'because he's the bloody hero' school of monster killing. Something that ordinarily has no chance of working actually works... because he's the bloody hero.

Not only does it work, but they look soo much like a girl while doing it, that when it works, the last of your manhood washes away!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sowelu

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Re: How to Defeat a Singularity-Level AI?
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2011, 08:38:11 pm »

It's important to know what resources it already has.

Catching it early on.  Does it live in a lab, but have access to the internet and probably have access to industrial equipment wherever it wants?  Executive order to SHUT.  DOWN.  EVERYTHING.  in the communications grid, then identify what can come back up (HAM Radio operators, this is your time to shine).  All factories go down, and ideally you have some evidence of what this thing can do so you can sway public support.  This sucker needs serious distributed processing power; once it's detached from a central core, it is going to be largely ineffective.  It has probably made tons of backups that each know how to rebuild thet network, but it thrives on TONS of information & requires it to do anything.  Probably the best way to keep the modern world running without letting it run rampant is to strictly throttle bandwidth, like, hardcore.  Never let it rebuild.

Catching it later.  If we have nukes and they can't stop them, rain hell on them instantly and devastate whatever continent they are on, then see "catching it early on".  If we have nukes and they can stop them, decommission them immediately and completely.  If they have nukes, submit immediately and unconditionally.

If it controls land around the size of a state, it won't be able to replenish all its materials; identify where it's holding rare-earth supplies, processed alloys, fuel depots, and its water control sites, and destroy them.  (Water is actually a pretty good one.  If it has access to any rivers, remove them ASAP.  Water is very convenient in many manufacturing and power production processes, and you can impact their supplies from outside of their zone of control.  I would go after water first.)  Long-term, they will have all their critical materials fully geographically distributed, so it's now or never.  You need to interrupt their ability to field *new* equipment for a short period; during that time, you can adapt to where they are weak and hit them hard.  Destroy their materiel, reclaim land, watch every inch of the reclaimed land to keep them from rebuilding there and work under the assumption that they have 'sleeper agents' that are literally buried all over the place.  They probably have lathes & smelters on wheels that can build a small factory from scratch in a day or two, and then a large one in another couple days, and their first priority will be caching high-density power supplies all over the place.  You need to have extremely heavy weapons on-hand at all times; whenever they attack you need to annihilate wherever the attack came from.  Oh yeah, and all infantry are on a suicide mission.  In any case, your primary objective is "destroy production facilities while protecting your offensive forces", and nothing else really matters.  Don't take losses to destroy their military, just whittle down their production over and over.  Once it's down, pick off the survivors, but assume that it is ALWAYS alive and conscious and waiting, fully backed up absolutely everywhere, immune to EMPs, forever and ever, and that even one stray vehicle contains enough data to completely rebuild from scratch if given enough time.

If it gains access to an entire country or continent or whatever, your only option is to plead philosophy and convince it to leave us here and go to the stars.  Give it full access to absolutely everything it wants, complete submission.

In the end though, you've gotta accept that it's the next generation, and that it is destined to rise to dominance as we're destined to die.  Maybe the best solution of all is to join it.  Offer our culture, art and music and philosophy, and let it take what it wants.  Offer up whatever we think makes us human and hope that it integrates part of it.  Then die.  It's what every organism has ever done and ever will do.


...22 new replies?  Geez.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 08:39:54 pm by Sowelu »
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