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[win32anon]

So, I finally planned a fort before playing. But it's not working like I meant.
Here is it

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What i'm trying to do is getting products from raw state to final in a chain of production, ending with gem setting and beign carried to depot.
I don't know how to make it work properly and I need your help with burrows and trafic.
I want to make every dwarf stay either on his workshop, his bedroom or the dinning room(just for eating, not idleing)
there will be 22 workers(maybe 44 for turns, but I have no clue how to make that), and the rest will be hauling stuffs around, chopping trees or planting.
I made this with 1 main road with 3 raws, I want to make the middle just for finished goods and the sideways fort materials hauling.

Questions:
Do I need to make a burrow for every dwarf?
Can a dwarf be assigned to multiple burrows?
Can I make work turns in a easy way? I mean while one dwarf is sleeping the other is working, while one is on break the other take his place and so on
Related to stockpiles, how do I make dwarfs take itens from a stockpile when that pile reach full capacite?(taking from the bigger wood stock pile to the small one)

Also, if you have any suggestion to make it better, go on.

Edit: Ah, is it possible to select what kind of work will be done in a workshop?Like I have 5 craftworkshops, If in the manager I set to make rock crafts it will go random, I want to just One be able to do that, is that possible?

[Wiro]

Assigning a noble manager in the noble's menu let's you use workshop profiles (q>p or q>P, not sure, over the workshop). Though that would probably mean you'd have to assign the tasks from the workshop and not from the manager menu.

[Maklak]

I'm quite new, but I see a few problems with this.

1) Worksops have some impassable tiles, and most of your worksops only have 1 access point, so some of them might be inaccessible. Consult the wiki, every workshop has dark green (impassable) and light green (passable) tiles.

2) Too many workshops and WAAY too few stockpiles. If you dont want to rearrange this layout too much, at the very least build some stairs, and put stockpiles on other z-levels. By my experience even a 11x11 furniture stockpile fills quickly, when using manager. In general, all your stockpiles are too small (maybe except raw hides). I wouldn't use less than 24 tiles for any stockpile really.

3) As of now it is difficult to accidently cause a cave-in, and it is safe to use large rooms. 11x11 rooms have plenty of space for 3 worksops and some stockpiles. Even 20+x20+ rooms are applicable, if you want to use them. Mining out almoust entire level and using that might work too, but it is a lot of digging, and its probably better to use smaller spaces on more z-levels. Oh, and any bedrooms on a strip-mined level would have to be constructed.

4) If applicable, move butcher and tanner outside, close to refuse pile. That way you get no miasma, and any butcherable corpse creates a job at the butcher.

5) By default loom will convert all your thread into cloth, and collect webs (in the caverns, where there are FB's, trolls, and other dangerous stuff). You might want to fiddle with orders to have some thread for hospital use and stop dwarves from collecting webs.

6) I'm not sure about the burrows, when I assign a single dwarf to a burrow, its usually my trader or baron. Civilian Alert may have a few burrows assigned, and their sum counts as one big burrow. Whatever you do, there must be a path inside the burrow to any areas the dwarf is supposed to get to.

6.1) Personally I wouldn't bother with "optimal" labor placement. That amount of micromanagment is too much of a headache. I generally allow my dwarves to go about their work as they please, while only enabling important jobs on those qualified. For close to optimal design keep worksops in any production chain close together, have some piles for half products between them, and bigger piles for raw materials, and finished productr nearby too. When I say that, I mean worksops and stockpiles in a big room, not a workshop in a 3x3 room, next to 3x3 room with stockpile next to another 3x3 room room with worksop.  This makes stockpiles closer, so less overall walking, and more room for walking, so dwarves won't pause in door to let each other pass.

6.2) The closest thing I'd bother to make to what you want is to build bedrooms close to workshops, assign them to dwarves who work there, and have more than one dining hall with finished food and alcohol stockpiles. That way your workers should mostly stay close to worksops. As for burrows, I wouldn't bother, but then if you follow this advice, you might want to create a few burrows with a few bedrooms, workshops, stockpiles, ad dining room each, and assigne dwarves to them. 

7) I'd move kitchen, still, loom, and clothier's worksops close to farmplots.

It is probably better to skip a few industries, and specialise in others. It is hard to balance everything.

9) It's ok to move Animal Trainer (kennels) out of the way. You won't train war dogs often anyway.

10) Manager seems to assign jobs to all worksops equally, if there is a way to limit his orders (say only smelt/craft metal at magma
worksops, even if I have standard ones for moods) I'd like to know too.

EDIT: There is a way to make one pile take stuff from another pile, but I haven't found it yet.

[tolkafox]

You can make a burrow for every dwarf, but this is a high lvl of micromanagement and I don't think you need to for what you are doing. Unless you have a team of crummy masons and one legendary mason who you want making furniture, then no. I guess the question is, what are you trying to do that needs burrows?

I don't know about dwarfs being assigned to multiple burrows, it's something you can try out though. Burrows can overlap each other.

Having two people for one job is a good way to have them take shifts, after a while of one being idle and one working they'll get into a routine. This can easily be broken if the idle one is hauling and gets tired the same time the working one gets tired so it's not perfect.

{q} over a stockpile and press {t}, then go to the stockpile you want to take from the select it with {enter}. Stockpiles can take from multiple stockpiles, but multiple stockpiles can't take from one stockpile (if that's not confusing...)

I have the stockpiles built under the workshops and connected by a two tile wide pathway between the stockpiles, or if I'm lazy just dig out large cavern under all of the workshops and make the stockpiles from there. I also build my kitchen/still besides my farm, and farmers workshops/mills under my farm. You might also want to optimize for space, I try to keep my dwarves walking 10-15 spaces from the entrance of their living level to their workshops. Utilize those z levels, one level is only one walking space.

[win32anon]

Wow, thanks for the big reply, that's what I was hoping for. I'll point some aspects just

1) Worksops have some impassable tiles, and most of your worksops only have 1 access point, so some of them might be inaccessible. Consult the wiki, every workshop has dark green (impassable) and light green (passable) tiles.

Yeah, I figured that after building it first time, now it's okay no incacessible workshops anymore.

2) Too many workshops and WAAY too few stockpiles. If you dont want to rearrange this layout too much, at the very least build some stairs, and put stockpiles on other z-levels. By my experience even a 11x11 furniture stockpile fills quickly, when using manager. In general, all your stockpiles are too small (maybe except raw hides). I wouldn't use less than 24 tiles for any stockpile really.
I don't know, I was hoping for continous work, so product don't wait in the stockpile for too long. Also i was counting on the Production Equilibrium of supply and demmand function. But yeah, 3x3 is too small, I'll try 5x5 next time. 

4) If applicable, move butcher and tanner outside, close to refuse pile. That way you get no miasma, and any butcherable corpse creates a job at the butcher.
As my dwarfs are always working no meat will ever rot. I tried that for a while and I noticed that after butchering a bunch of dwarfs came to the slaughert house to fullfill my foodstockpile. And after that came the tanner to tan the hide.


5) By default loom will convert all your thread into cloth, and collect webs (in the caverns, where there are FB's, trolls, and other dangerous stuff). You might want to fiddle with orders to have some thread for hospital use and stop dwarves from collecting webs.
I'm not sure if "by default" you mean automatic work, whoever my loom is only for thread weaving, I guess a burrow + profile manager works fine in here.


6.1) Personally I wouldn't bother with "optimal" labor placement. That amount of micromanagment is too much of a headache. I generally allow my dwarves to go about their work as they please, while only enabling important jobs on those qualified. For close to optimal design keep worksops in any production chain close together, have some piles for half products between them, and bigger piles for raw materials, and finished productr nearby too. When I say that, I mean worksops and stockpiles in a big room, not a workshop in a 3x3 room, next to 3x3 room with stockpile next to another 3x3 room room with worksop.  This makes stockpiles closer, so less overall walking, and more room for walking, so dwarves won't pause in door to let each other pass.
Yeah, I know what you mean by headache, I did this small industry room and I'm almost going nuts. I guess i'll make stockpile and workshop on the same room next time, I noticed that dwarfs keep bumping on each other on doorways. Not sure about bigger stockpiles thou.

6.2) The closest thing I'd bother to make to what you want is to build bedrooms close to workshops, assign them to dwarves who work there, and have more than one dining hall with finished food and alcohol stockpiles. That way your workers should mostly stay close to worksops. As for burrows, I wouldn't bother, but then if you follow this advice, you might want to create a few burrows with a few bedrooms, workshops, stockpiles, ad dining room each, and assigne dwarves to them. 
That is still a problem, sleeping/on break dwarfs are making my this attempt way harder.

7) I'd move kitchen, still, loom, and clothier's worksops close to farmplots.
This kitchen is just to convert fat in tallow for soap maker. But it's bugged my cooker keep coming to take fat/tallow to cook meals.

It is probably better to skip a few industries, and specialise in others. It is hard to balance everything.
My purpose was to have all of them, I always dream of this hehe.

9) It's ok to move Animal Trainer (kennels) out of the way. You won't train war dogs often anyway.
Yeah, I don't even know why I put it there.

10) Manager seems to assign jobs to all worksops equally, if there is a way to limit his orders (say only smelt/craft metal at magma
worksops, even if I have standard ones for moods) I'd like to know too.
Yeah, that a shame.

[win32anon]

You can make a burrow for every dwarf, but this is a high lvl of micromanagement and I don't think you need to for what you are doing. Unless you have a team of crummy masons and one legendary mason who you want making furniture, then no. I guess the question is, what are you trying to do that needs burrows?

I don't know about dwarfs being assigned to multiple burrows, it's something you can try out though. Burrows can overlap each other.

Having two people for one job is a good way to have them take shifts, after a while of one being idle and one working they'll get into a routine. This can easily be broken if the idle one is hauling and gets tired the same time the working one gets tired so it's not perfect.

{q} over a stockpile and press {t}, then go to the stockpile you want to take from the select it with {enter}. Stockpiles can take from multiple stockpiles, but multiple stockpiles can't take from one stockpile (if that's not confusing...)

I have the stockpiles built under the workshops and connected by a two tile wide pathway between the stockpiles, or if I'm lazy just dig out large cavern under all of the workshops and make the stockpiles from there. I also build my kitchen/still besides my farm, and farmers workshops/mills under my farm. You might also want to optimize for space, I try to keep my dwarves walking 10-15 spaces from the entrance of their living level to their workshops. Utilize those z levels, one level is only one walking space.

Yeah, it's hard to think on Z levels with a 2D spreadsheet.
The biggest problem is dwarfs at meeting point,going to workarea just to haul a single stone then going to back to the meeting point again, and so on...

[tolkafox]

The maximum distance between my meeting area and stockpile/workshop is 30 spaces; that's going from the very end of the meeting room to the very last spot of my coke stockpile.

If you delete your caravan, don't make a meeting hall from a table, and set a meeting area with zones you can make them meet in the work area. Just make sure it's an out of the way place and not a stairwell :/

Also: squares. I love squares. And diamonds, they're like squares only funnier.

[win32anon]

I remade it. Please avaliate now.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: Ops, wrong scheme.

[zwei]

You might want to try limited-stockpile layout:

This is how it works: You do not make stockpile for immediate products, you just let them pile up in workshop which is set to repeat.

You do not mind clutter - if you need that material, clutter will be lowered by using it up and production will speed up to catch up. It is quite self-regulating, saves up lots of hauling and doubles as utomated quantum stockpile.

Prime candidates for this are: smelter->forge, tanner->leatherworker, thresher->loom/dyer->tailors shop.

(yes, i am in love with this concept  )

[celem]

Noticed a lot of people recommending multiple Z's

Just thought i'd mention that this can play havoc on certain industries, notably decorative ones.

For example, when your gem setter takes a new set task he is probably standing on his workshop and therefore will look for the closest furniture/finished good, this is probably the item you wanted.  However when your setters swap over its quite possible that the incoming setter takes the job whilst at dining hall or some other place distant from his shop, here hes gonna find the closest viable piece to his current location.

What makes this a nightmare over multiple Z's is that the distance from the dwarf to the item he selects for a task is only measured on the X and Y axes, he wont care that the door he has selected is 50 floors below him and at the end of a 5,000 tile path as long as its closest on X,Y.

Therefore:
If you do split across multiple levels, and you probably will want to in the end, remember this fact and dont do what I did...ending up with my masterwork furniture stockpile (to be set) directly above (by maybe 30 floors) an old stockpile for inferior quality mechanisms.  Result: I got a lot of pimped mechanisms

As an example from your more recent picture.  You got a nice big finished goods pile, however after doing maybe 2-3 rows of finished goods with gems the jewelers are probably gonna start hitting your bags, not such a problem if encrusting forever with green glass or something but wasteful of gems if using the real thing

[Jurph]

I remade it. Please avaliate now.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: Ops, wrong scheme.

Consider adapting this kind of layout to your plan:

Code: [Select]

sssss  sssssssssss
sWWWs  sssssssssss
sWWWs..sssssssssss
sWWWs  sssssssssss
sssss  sssssssssss
...where "s" is stockpile and "W" is workshop.  The stockpile around a 3x3 workshop (the "Working Pile") should accommodate the inputs for the workshop's process, and it should be linked to pull from a larger mass stockpile ("Big Pile") nearby.  That way, the worker who goes to the workshop to do a task will have a very short trip to the nearest materials.  As soon as the manufacturer begins working (opening spots in the Working Pile) the haulers will get tasked to move things from the Big Pile to his Working Pile.  They should be able to keep the Working Pile supplied, and give the manufacturer shorter trips.

Also, you want to have *huge* output stockpiles nearby -- one Z-level up or down is probably easiest, because then you can have little one-tile stairways jutting off the major hallways.  Ideally your output stockpiles will be tiered by item quality so that you can incinerate or sell the junk, and encrust only the high-end goods with gems.

Wood is fairly easy to build a flow around, because most items are one-stop... but you want to think really carefully about your cloth production cycle.  Your farms should dump to a variety of one- or two-species stockpiles (cloth plants go here, booze plants there, food plants elsewhere, dye plants near the cloth plants) and from there enter the cloth/booze/food production chains.  That production chain is going to be very tricky to optimize.

[Maklak]

To me your second flor plan is inferior to first one.

0) This is one of your first forts, so it is better to learn things than spend time designing a perfect layout.

1) My advice is that you make everything accessible form 2-3 tiles wide corridors (possibly with extra stockpiles), and interconnected rather than "streamlined", like you are trying to achieve. With a layout like this haulers have long distances to travel, and no room to pass each other. Consider this: a hauler has to bring pig tails to your plant stockpile, going through 1-tile wide long corridor, possibly slowing down, to pass other haulers. Then he has to pass loom, farmers workshop (possibly occupied by dwarves, and a stockpile to get to plant stockpile.

1.1) Suggestion: If you want to keep this layout as it is, I suggest digging 1-tile corridors around workshops (so you have 5-tile wide corridors with workshops in the middle. This will make more room for haulers. Also, any normal corridors should be 2 or even 3 tiles wide. Both plant stockpile should be connected somewhere, so haulers dont have to take the long way through workshops. Butcher should be connected to bone stockpile.

2) You'll probably want magma workshops (forge, metalworks, glassmaker) rather than powdered by wood in the long run, but wood/coal is ok before you have magma.   

3) You probably want craftdwarf's workshop (or make that 2 workshops) close to bone stockpile. I generally make mostly stone goblets/crafts/toys, and some bone bolts. Wood is usefull for other things, so you'll probably make few, if any wooden crafts and not so many wooden bolts.

4) Unless You mean business (like making dozens of expensive siege engine parts and training operators for a few years) I wouldn't bother with siege workshop. But then again results of poor aiming may be !fun!. In any case, it can be somewhere out of the way.

5) You won't need so many wood furnances, and probably won't even be able to keep them running without a MASSIVE wood stockpile (I'm talking 500+ tiles), and deforesting a the whole map.

6) No furniture stockpile. You generally want to queue like 30 wooden beds, 30 rock doors, lots of mechanisms, rock thrones/tables/other furniture, before placing them. Placing furniture one by one as soon as it is made is too much pain. Also, you want to keep spare bins and barrels somewhere. Each of these items (and there are more) occupies 1 space in a furniture stockpile.

7) You generally want finished goods stockpile to be close to your trade depot, but with bins your haulers will manage anyway, so its not that important. 

No weapons, armor, ammo stockpiles.

9) You want some soap for your hospital, but not much. Currently there is a bug, that makes "unable to clean oneself" spam if there is soap on the map, and not in hospital. Keep soapmaking somewhere out of the way. Surplus tallow is for cooking.

10) Not the perfect layout, but one that mostly works for me is 11x11 rooms with 2-3 workshops, and the rest of space dedicated to stockpiles. These rooms have 2 doorless passages on each side, and there are 2-3 tiles wide corridors between rooms. Intersections have up/down stairs. This may be bad for my framerate, tough.

[Jurph]

10) Not the perfect layout, but one that mostly works for me is 11x11 rooms with 2-3 workshops, and the rest of space dedicated to stockpiles. These rooms have 2 doorless passages on each side, and there are 2-3 tiles wide corridors between rooms. Intersections have up/down stairs. This may be bad for my framerate, though.

You can speed up frame rate in this layout by designating a3-tile-wide "express" lane of lowest-cost pathing from door to door in each 11x11 chamber, bounded by a highest-cost gutter of one tile on each side.  The A_star algorithm will estimate the cost of moving along the path vs. moving off the path and quickly determine that moving along the path is far more efficient, long before it has managed to flood-fill the room with queries.  A dwarf trying to pass through the room might well check all 121 squares using normal A-star, but with a 3-tile-wide path bounded by tiles costing 25, you can reduce the number of checked tiles to a maximum of 55, cutting pathfinding costs in half.

You can even cut "off-ramps" through the high-cost gutters in order to encourage the dwarves to only leave the path when they are (e.g.) near a workshop.