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[Lenin_Cat]

Do swords do more damage when maxed out then firearms?

[Funk]

the wiki says guns do the most.

[deknegt]

And if you look at the multi-shot weapon you get a lot of rampage with high skills.

just think of the M4 or the AK47

3 chances to hit and can also hit 3 targets in that burst.
With lets say 20 rifle skill you will cause total anarchy during a firefight.
And if you take a whole team of 6 guys armed to the teeth with assault rifles there will be gore galore.

Compare that to lets say a Katana which can only ''fire'' once every turn and also can only kill 1 person per turn, it lacks the OOMPH to kill in bunches like rifles and SMG's do.

So yes, guns do the most damage. But i love the Katana more ^^

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Generally, the key is accuracy. You can't kill in one hit if you hit the arms or legs, and you're much less likely to hit the head or body if you have low skill. If you have high skill and land a solid hit, most high end weapons kill in one hit unless you get an unlucky damage roll.

Comparing straight damage, swords do more damage than guns if you have high strength, since the strength modifies your damage; otherwise, assault rifles do the most damage. Assault rifles do more base damage per shot than swords, and can hit up to three times. The M4 is the most accurate; M16 and AK-47 are the most damaging. I would prefer the M4 for low skill people, since the accuracy benefit will probably increase your overall effectiveness, and both can do enough damage to kill in one shot anyway. The SMG is even more accurate for low skill people, but its accuracy drops off rapidly with each successive shot in the burst, and its small ammo capacity means you'll reload more often. It's pretty underpowered.

The biggest advantage of swords over guns is that when you get good with them, they routinely lop off limbs. Most guns don't do that. Swords are a melee weapon though, so they incur a possibility of being deflected and countered. Deknegt mentioned some guns hitting more than one target with their three attacks per round; that's true in 3.09, though it was cut in later releases. Still, three hits on the same target is nothing to shake a sword at.

Overall, I think swords edge out as the most deadly weapons in the end game, once your stats are very high. Severing limbs is just too useful, and the strength bonus to damage is pretty huge. Guns are great weapons at any stage though, and you're less likely to get killed when training with them.

[Carlos Gustavos]

Since 4.02 alpha I have never had a sword cut of a limb and assault rifles have only destroyed heads, the easiest body part to be removed. The best possible liberals (20 everything except wisdom) are never able to kill someone with just one hit with a sword.

[Duuvian]

Would it make sense for longer melee weapons to get an automatic counter against unarmed opponents, due to a reach advantage?

Perhaps if this was the case, then unarmed users could be better at counter attacking at high skill.

Also, swords cutting off limbs was pretty cool.

[vadia]

Would it make sense for longer melee weapons to get an automatic counter against unarmed opponents, due to a reach advantage?

Perhaps if this was the case, then unarmed users could be better at counter attacking at high skill.

Also, swords cutting off limbs was pretty cool.

get up close enough and the sword is nearly useless -- mind you you'd have to be good or lucky.

[Grimith]

The sword may do more overall damage (which satisfies the query of the OP), but I'd rather pew-pew than slice-slice. If memory serves me correctly, an AK-47 succeeds rather well at detonating limbs from the bodies of Arch-Conservatives, and, with twenty skill, three hits with it aren't rare. I don't have too much experience with swords, though, so I have to pitch the question: What's the chance of a sword attack being deflected or countered? Presuming the chance rate decreases as skill increases, how likely is it to see if you're maxed out in Sword?

[Biag]

What I saw a lot of the time was that even if they countered, it was pretty likely for my founder to counter back and kill them. If you have a high Dodge, training up Sword is easy, fun, and rewarding!

The really enjoyable thing about swords, in my opinion, is that you can counter melee weapons with them; if you're fighting an Angry Mob, you can end up getting three kills/incapacitations a turn at high skill.

[Neonivek]

The Sword is a lot like a conditional weapon

In the hands of an extremely exceptional individual and it can even top many guns

Guns are generally better in most cases.

[EuchreJack]

If you change the venue to car combat, swords are useless.  Remember that.

Oh, and if someone has a few points in shotgun, it can be worthwhile to have them use that.  Shotguns also blow off limbs.  But shotguns aren't very accurate, hence the requirement they already have some skill in its use.

[Funk]

the only bad thing with shotguns is that there crap vs armor.
the best thing is that there more accurate than most other weapons.

[Kay12]

3 chances to hit and can also hit 3 targets in that burst.

You're wrong, sonny. Based on my experience and a quick peek at the source, the burst fire weapons can only hit one target during one round. No chance of a liberal killing or wounding more than one target with a single burst.

If you change the venue to car combat, swords are useless.  Remember that.

Oh, and if someone has a few points in shotgun, it can be worthwhile to have them use that.  Shotguns also blow off limbs.  But shotguns aren't very accurate, hence the requirement they already have some skill in its use.

Car combat is useless in any case. It's way too easy to outdrive any chasers. Also, shotguns aren't inaccurate, but they seldom do max damage when compared to assault rifles.

[KaguroDraven]

I finished the Liberal cause with nothing but my founder in basic armor and a sword, some hippies to make me money, and a hippy to write in the paper for me. He only lost an eye during his years of combating the conservitive scum. I'd say swords are damn powerful. Admitedly I ran when the odds where really against me, and tried to never stay around for swat or death squads, but still.

[jerank]

I've found that a completely untrained user wielding an M16 tends to kill or maim everything up to a wearer of Police Body Armor with one burst. A six-man squad wielding M16's will slaughter any group smaller then about five more often then not. High-agility wielders will even get two turns to every one the enemy gets, meaning much mowing-down ensues.