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[Org]

MBP, you totally ignore my question, asked twice. I am deeply annoyed by this.

Also:

Ottofar, you've been distinctly useless so far. Rectify that situation or die.

Archangel, Ottofar, you've been also useless so far. Please come in and contribute, or die.

Ottofar, Org, Argemberger and archangel are lurking pretty hasrd right now and theyll pay for it soon.

... Really? 1) He answered your question, 2) your question was completely irrelevant, 3) you continue to be useless. Please amend that.


Oh, and Org

You don't really seem to do much, at least not yet. Is can't be because there's nothing for you to contribute, there's plenty going on. If this how your performance usually is then it seems like they lynch you for a reason. Are any of these "idiots" you speak of in this game? And if so, do you think they'll target you to unreasonable degrees?

Please don't ignore me, you're already proving useless enough.

I think Nirur shouldnt use meta and whatnot.

If you're not just saying that for the sake of saying it, provide an argument.

No you.

Org. If you plan to go through the entire game like this, I see no reason keeping you around, you'll only screw us over in LYLO if you're town and it'll just be a pleasant bonus if you happen to be scum.

Useless is a relative term. Asking questions can be useless because I'll ignore ones I don't feel like answering.
You have barely played this game. Remember that.

You are really dumb. This is what we call, a policy lynching, basically.
Lynching me, because I seem to be useless. herp. Derp.
I am waiting. I dont draw conclusions day one.

[Pandarsenic]

Org is actually being active and interacting, which is a step up from his usual behavior. Also, he seems to be presenting a reasonable argument.

NT: "Meta."
Org: "Your use of Meta is bad, stop it."
NT: "Tell me why I should stop using Meta."
Org: "Tell me what the town gets out of you using Meta."

That's just the impression I got. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Ottofar: I don't really remember anything of him - he's doing nothing to impact me (negative or otherwise) and that's bothering me 'cause lurkers are ewwwww (though I feel we should NOT start going after them exclusively at ANY point)

Native: He's doing things but I'm not sure what I think of him so far. However, his activity means that should be rectified soon enough.

Mr.Pers- WAIT HE'S IN THIS GAME?

D:

[Jokerman-EXE]

God DAMN it.

For one thing, Zathras is scum. You're so jumpy, dude, it's appalling. I even posted saying that I wouldn't be around all day, because I'm in the process of moving back and forth from my home and my dorm. Yet you post twice, with nothing but an erroneous statement? Come on, you're smart enough to know the difference between a general statement about my playstyle and a one-time situation in which I'm not at my computer for less than 24 hours. Or are you?

Toaster:

As for your Jokerman question... well, he always lurks during RVS.  This is the most I've seen out of him in the first 48 hours of any game I can remember.  I've given him hell for it in the past, and it never amounted to much.  It's a bit scummy, but it's also firmly in his meta.

Thank you for actually realizing that.
As to your question: IronyOwl for sure, and maybe Pandar. I would say Zathras, though it's not really much beyond a feeling that's developing as time goes. You?

Mr.P: Yes, I absolutely see the merit of his argument, and sure, I can see that there might be a bit of truth in it. What I don't think, however, is that he's right - because he's not. What he's doing is tunneling (to the max, seriously), and while I think he has a few points, he's ignoring what I'm saying and refusing to acknowledge that maybe I've got a few points too. Which I find to be scummy.

[Mr.Person]

As useless as Ottofar is being, I'm going to go ahead and unvote.

Jokerman, if you find jumpiness to be scummy, why are you yourself so jumpy? Also, if Zathra's argument is true, how is it not right? That makes no sense.

Did somebody have a question outstanding, I think I forgot one. I think it was Zathras asking me to explain my thought process of scum? Well, I can say it's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what scum we're facing because the end-result is exactly the same: lynch them. I also don't care if such-and-such is a cultist or not because even if we were to disagree which scum such-and-such is, we'd still agree to lynch such-and-such.

@Pand: I've said the same thing about you before.

[Zathras]

God DAMN it. For one thing, Zathras is scum. You're so jumpy, dude, it's appalling.

God DAMN it! Can you spell OMGUS?! Wow. That was like the one scumtell you hadn't dropped yet. I thought you said, in your very last post, "One thing that I have decided on is that you don't feel like scum right now." Either you have a lot of new evidence to change your mind, or it's total OMGUS, yes?

Yet you post twice, with nothing but an erroneous statement?

Please point out this erroneous statement of which you speak, and how I said nothing but it. While you're there, please show how I'm ignoring all the other players and therefore tunneling on you. There's a difference between tunneling and not letting go of the rod when you've caught a scum.

As for your Jokerman question... well, he always lurks during RVS.  This is the most I've seen out of him in the first 48 hours of any game I can remember.  I've given him hell for it in the past, and it never amounted to much.  It's a bit scummy, but it's also firmly in his meta.

Thank you for actually realizing that.

Now you're being disingenuous. It's not lurking during RVS what I find scummy about you. It's your numerous contradictory statements (want me to link them?), your saying that lurking is OK, that we shouldn't look for lurkers, but then that I should go look for lurkers and leave you alone, and so on. You have professed anti-town actions as viable, contradicted yourself numerous times, and been very panicky. But you seem to think Toaster knows what's going on, so let's ask him:

Toaster: aside from lurking during RVS, do you think there's merit in the rest of my case on Jokerman, that he is right when saying lurkers should be ignored "until you are completely convinced all the active players are town", his disingenuous thought that there's "town+scum and mmmaybe a 3rd party" as factions, his brand new OMGUS, his attempt to get me to go away until D2, and so on? It's not his lurking why I'm on his case. What say you? Of the two of us, who's scummier?

[Zathras]

that's bothering me 'cause lurkers are ewwwww (though I feel we should NOT start going after them exclusively at ANY point)

Yes, it's ewwww, and no, never exclusively, but never ignore them either. It's a balancing act, and scum should be denied that strategy. ...but don't worry, HELP IS HERE...

Mr.Pers- WAIT HE'S IN THIS GAME?   D:

Never suffer from this again! Use the LurkerTracker^® Today, and know where everyone is! It's better than twitter, GPS and WikiLeaks combined!Archangel has 1 posts; the last 37 hours ago. Red text: Org Posts: [1]
Argembarger has 2 posts; the last 31 hours ago. Red text: Jokerman-EXE Posts: [1][2]
IronyOwl has 10 posts; the last 14 hours ago. Red text: Pandarsenic Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
Jokerman-EXE has 8 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Mr.Person has 7 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: unvote.Jokerman Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
Mysteriousbluepuppet has 13 posts; the last 4 hours ago. Red text: Irony Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]
NativeForeigner has 12 posts; the last 1 hours ago. Red text: Org Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Nirur Torir has 13 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Unvote. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]
Org has 5 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Nirur Posts: [1][2][3][4][5]
Ottofar has 7 posts; the last 4 hours ago. Red text: MBP Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
Pandarsenic has 3 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Posts: [1][2][3]
Toaster has 12 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: IronyOwl Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Zathras has 11 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Vote Jokerman-EXE Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]


Moderator has 2 posts; the last 23 hours ago. Posts: [1][2]

Moderator: please prod Archangel. They haven't posted in over 36 hours.Notes:
1) Current up to my previous. Would have been up sooner, but Jokerman interrupted me.
2) I think the redtext finder is good now, but still let me know if you see it screwing up.

[NativeForeigner]

Org is still Org, I see.

Native, at which point do you feel that people who are frequently untownlike/lurkers should be lynched, rather then people who are throwing out scum-tells?

I feel they should be lynched not necessarily right away, but before they become a potential problem. Just as lynching a troublesome, useless, or scummy townie before LYLO. However, it's a better idea to apply pressure before them and try to straighten them out if they're useless but otherwise scumtell-free.

Exhibit one: Org reacting to my vote, he's actually posted something useful now, let's hope he keeps it up.

Org. If you plan to go through the entire game like this, I see no reason keeping you around, you'll only screw us over in LYLO if you're town and it'll just be a pleasant bonus if you happen to be scum.

Useless is a relative term. Asking questions can be useless because I'll ignore ones I don't feel like answering.
You have barely played this game. Remember that.

You are really dumb. This is what we call, a policy lynching, basically.
Lynching me, because I seem to be useless. herp. Derp.
I am waiting. I dont draw conclusions day one.
[/quote]

Then why don't you feel like answering my question to you? Do you feel like it'll hurt you to just answer a little question? Or do you think it'll bring too much attention to yourself and you'll get lynched early like these "idiots" are prone to do? And what does my experience with the game have anything to do with you answering my questions?

If this is how you play, then it's clear to my why you get lynched early. You ignore questions, you're not generally useful, and you wait. You could at least do some scumhunting, don't wait for others to do it for you.

[NativeForeigner]

God DAMN it. For one thing, Zathras is scum. You're so jumpy, dude, it's appalling.

God DAMN it! Can you spell OMGUS?! Wow. That was like the one scumtell you hadn't dropped yet. I thought you said, in your very last post, "One thing that I have decided on is that you don't feel like scum right now." Either you have a lot of new evidence to change your mind, or it's total OMGUS, yes?

Zathras pulls up a strong point here, Jokerman. What made you suddenly change your mind from feeling like Zathras isn't scum to voting him? Is it just a reactive vote to his constant pushing or are you cracking under pressure? Explain yourself, I'll feel better about lynching scum than I will about lynching Org.

[Org]

Neither. If I wanted attention, I can get attention.
Really. I'm Org.

Really, Native, respect thy elders. Your condescending attitude will get thoust no answers, heathen.

[Zathras]

How 'bout my questions, then? Or am I also being disrespectful?

OK, then. Follow up questions: I used meta on you as well, but you objected to Nirur's, not mine - why? Do you think Joker is just dumb, or scummy? (or both?) Pandar has contributed even less than you; do you think that's more typical of town Pandar, scum Pandar, or who-knows Pandar?

[Argembarger]

Oh shit I didn't realize I was gone for that long. Sorry guys.

First of all; I'm not a fan of the Org policy lynch, as it's all based on some really heavy meta and it's starting to get to the point where it's stupid to definitively say "Org will screw town over in LyLo", because it doesn't look like Org has even been allowed to get to LyLo for a long time... Meta analyses on him are getting really stupid because he gets killed early so often, how do you even know how he plays or doesn't play nowadays?

If this is how you play, then it's clear to my why you get lynched early. You ignore questions, you're not generally useful, and you wait. You could at least do some scumhunting, don't wait for others to do it for you.

If this is the reason you're voting Org, instead of preconceived notions based in meta, that's cool.

As for your Jokerman question... well, he always lurks during RVS.  This is the most I've seen out of him in the first 48 hours of any game I can remember.  I've given him hell for it in the past, and it never amounted to much.  It's a bit scummy, but it's also firmly in his meta.  I doubt he and IronyOwl are on the same team, so that makes me think he's more likely to be town, since I think IO is scum.

I feel the same way, and also I'm pretty sure my Jokerman vote is left over from early RVS... so, unvote for now.


NativeForeigner, besides Org, and keeping your ideas independent from what Zathras has been saying, do you have any other suspicions of your own?

[Nirur Torir]

Argenbarger: If you were scum, and your role was to know ahead of time that you were scum, and be able to pick the other scum roles, what roles would you have picked for two scum buddies and why?

People who ignore my questions deserve even more questions.

Argembarger, give your top three scum picks.

Archangel, you're heavily lurking. Please give your opinions on the scumminess of everybody.

[NativeForeigner]

Neither. If I wanted attention, I can get attention.
Really. I'm Org.

Really, Native, respect thy elders. Your condescending attitude will get thoust no answers, heathen.

You're not helping yourself, Org.

I'll give respect where it's deserved. Simply being more experienced with the game will earn you no respect from me. Proving to be a good player will. Not answering questions won't. Using old timey vocab is a neutral, but pleasant matter.

And I see no disrespect with my initial question, it was phrased neutrally and was only meant to get a better idea what kind of player you are.

If this is how you play, then it's clear to my why you get lynched early. You ignore questions, you're not generally useful, and you wait. You could at least do some scumhunting, don't wait for others to do it for you.

If this is the reason you're voting Org, instead of preconceived notions based in meta, that's cool.

Since this is the first game I've played with Org and I haven't looked back at any of his previous games, I have no preconceived notions based in meta to go off of, only what I observe of him during this game.

NativeForeigner, besides Org, and keeping your ideas independent from what Zathras has been saying, do you have any other suspicions of your own?

I don't have many well-placed suspicions apart from Jokerman. IronyOwl could either be on to Zathras as being scum, on to nothing all, or trying to defend Joker, who, if scum, would mean IronyOwl is likely to be scum as well. Only a roleflip of either Joker or IronyOwl would help determine which it is right now. If Joker or Irony were to flip scum, the other would likely be scum as well. If town, maybe not.

That's all I have right now.

[NativeForeigner]

Wait, I think I may have misread something. >_>

Scratch most of what I just said.

We could either have an Irony, Zathras team, given Irony's slight buddying and Zathras potential distancing, or Joker could be scum and Irony simply rooting Zathras on.

[IronyOwl]

IronyOwl:

As far as you questioning your buddying, I wouldn't have mentioned the second example were it not for the first- it's more establishing an association.  The third one, like I said, is setting up a false "us vs them," where you push Jokerman away from you and pull Zathras toward you.

So mentioning his name is buddying, but only when I've buddied him earlier. Gotcha.

Let's just simplify this: Rephrase the information the way I would have put it if I hadn't been trying to establish connections and pose false dilemmas. Let's get the nonscummy version up there for comparison.

If it's any consolation, I tried to deliberately not mention how scummy it was that Jokerman wanted to be all reasonable now.

So you didn't mention something you saw as a scumtell so as to improve your own image?  That's very townie behavior! [/sarcasm]

Jesus, you really want me lynched, don't you? I didn't want to step on Zath's toes, as I've mentioned previously. Where did I mention my image?

You are the man for now Irony.  If you want to throw back the quotes with the reason why for you it's not buddying go ahead, but i'm certain people here already got their opinion on it. If you want to be actually usefull, go right ahead, i'll be checking you go.

What is this bolded part? Is it some kind of veiled threat? You seem to be saying "go ahead and defend yourself but I'm sure several people have already made up their minds regardless of what you say."

Toaster, you seem to be our resident wording-minutiae-scum-everywhere expert, what do you make of this? Is it a veiled attempt to get people to think of me as scum?

What I read from this is MBP saying "I think you're scum, ok bye now."  He's not trying to push his view on anyone else, and there's a sense of conclusion to his attack line on you.

That's backwards; he says he's certain others have already made up their minds, but if I want to defend myself or be useful he'll be right there checking up on me. For the amount of attention you've paid to my wording, and the dire implications you've drawn from them, you seem awfully careless and carefree with MBP's. Why?

I find it noteworthy that I've never seen you this aggressive this early, Toaster. Are you eager for an opportunity or simply desperate to defend your scumbuddy?

Am i now ? Why dont you re-read yourself ? Now with actually relevant titles

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

IronyOwl Posts
RV Question
-Yes

Fuck yeah Zathras mode. Calling Jokerman on lurking policy
-Yes

Attacking Jokerman with Zathras argument. It's ok since hes good.
-*BZZZZRT*, we have bullshit. I was attacking him for one of the same reasons as Zath, but I wasn't copying him. You have the last part backwards- I felt it was okay to attack him THAT LIGHTLY because Zath was already on it.

Nothing usefull, why cant you see that Jokerman is scummier than meeeeeeeee, Irony edition
-You don't think questioning Pandar and pointing out that Jokerman is going back on his own policy to avoid attention is useful? I also see that you're now using Toaster's argument, which is both ironic and the same issue you've had before with reading key phrases and nothing else.

Me , buddying ?? But that's non-possible
-*BZZZRT*, bullshit again! It had already been established that I buddied him the first time; Toaster was grasping at straws for the rest. But please, if you agree with him use your own words and quotes, I'd like to see your reasoning.

But i'm totaly fine with it. It's normal after all.
-Now you're just trying to make me look bad, in the same way you (and Toaster, hrm) have been- taking things I've stated and trying to make them look scummy. Why don't you explain- again, in your own words, precisely, and with quotes when appropriate- what about this was scummy?

I totally should not have said that fuck yeah Zathras thing
-*BZZZZZRT*, yet more bullshit! Not being a native speaker will only excuse so much of this shit. I said I didn't have to have said it, but I've never said I shouldn't have.

I don't understand/ I don't trust him, i just let him do my scumhunting for me
-That's odd, in the third link attacking the same guy as Zath was a scumtell! Now not attacking him is a scumtell? Which is it, MBP?

Oh hell NAW i wasn't buddying that man, Zathras.
-Once AGAIN, there's a difference between "I was buddying here" and the horseshit Toaster's been spewing. I see you STILL refuse to read the goddamned thread, and insist on latching onto Toaster's strategy instead.

Where is that scumhunting you want me to see ? You did ask a few question on Jokerman, then just stood back throwing flowers at Zathras from the side.Oh,  you also threw a few inane question at Pandar then tried to get yourself out of the pit you dug yourself. That's scumhunting like i've never seen.

Answers included. So, here we have the sum of your arguments:

-Attacking the same target as Zath is scummy
-Letting Zath attack the target instead is scummy
-Poking Pandarsenic is inane, and therefore scummy
-Responding to questions directed at me is attempting to dig myself out of a pit, and therefore scummy
-Buddying once means "throwing flowers at Zathras the whole game," and is therefore scummy

Congratulations, you're tunneling like crazy, despite needing to outright lie to do so.

For one thing, Zathras is scum. You're so jumpy, dude, it's appalling.

As to your question: IronyOwl for sure, and maybe Pandar. I would say Zathras, though it's not really much beyond a feeling that's developing as time goes.

So I'm certainly scum, but you're voting for Zathras, even though that's just a well-developed feeling. Why?


Pandarsenic, you still haven't answered any questions. You've had plenty of time to ask your own questions, and receive answers, but you're still avoiding giving opinions or saying anything definitive (aside from the Org bit) like the plague.