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[hops]

Sometimes I think that life is the only actually unequivocally cool thing in the universe. Like, neutron stars slamming into each other is pretty rad, but what good is it with nobody watching?

Life is cool in that it' the stsrt of a self-aware process, but we should really transition to something more resilient and efficient. Like, iunno, energy-based life?

[LordBaal]

Robots are cool. Reverting and stopping the ageing process to see how far the human mind can stand existence would be interesting too.

There was a special program with one of the myth buster guys about immortality, it was really nice.

[KittyTac]

Robots are cool. Reverting and stopping the ageing process to see how far the human mind can stand existence would be interesting too.

There was a special program with one of the myth buster guys about immortality, it was really nice.

Science is the only thing that can save humanity, yes.

[Rowanas]

Not to be that guy, but.... do we need or deserve saving?  I'm personally of the opinion that we shouldn't leave earth until we learn to manage ourselves down here, because otherwise we just spread our misery to the stars.

[hops]

Eh, we don't owe the universe anything. We can despoil it as much as we want so long as it doesn't kill us.

[Rowanas]

Eh, we don't owe the universe anything. We can despoil it as much as we want so long as it doesn't kill us.

My point is more that suffering is to be avoided, and joy is to be sought.  If the average human suffers more than they enjoy, then any expansion (such as on an entire extra world) simply increases the total suffering of our species, which is obviously bad.

[Maximum Spin]

My point is more that suffering is to be avoided

Pffff, good luck.
Suffering is a necessary part of existence, and not bad.

[SalmonGod]

My point is more that suffering is to be avoided

Pffff, good luck.
Suffering is a necessary part of existence, and not bad.

Often, yes.  But not all forms of suffering are the type that enrich our life stories and build character.

[Rowanas]

My point is more that suffering is to be avoided

Pffff, good luck.
Suffering is a necessary part of existence, and not bad.

I've heard this argument, and it sounds like the one a psychopath would make.  Some suffering is necessary to reap later joys, which produces a net gain in happiness. Anything which produces a net gain in suffering is morally and practically bad.  Something which produces improvements in us which increase our later enjoyment of life has produced a net gain of happiness.

[Maximum Spin]

Anything which produces a net gain in suffering is morally and practically bad.

I do not agree with this statement.

It's fine for you to think it, but remember that it's subjective.


More to the point, though, it's also useless for you to think that, because, in practice, suffering is inevitable. Nothing you believe will result in less suffering.

[SalmonGod]

My take is enrichment and fulfillment are more important than happiness, and completely separate from any individual emotion or type of experience.  It takes variety and reflection.  Suffering is a vital component, because they're all vital components.  But it takes reflection and contrast with other experiences to get anything out of that suffering.  Without that, suffering is just suffering.  And no... not just because bad times help you appreciate good times more, thereby increasing happiness.

[Maximum Spin]

Interesting. My take is that all experiences are equally valuable as ends in themselves, although I do personally like reflecting on things even though I don't assign it a special moral value. Although reflection is, of course, valuable as an experience and thus sort of a bonus to the original experience, in a way. I also consider inevitable things to be morally necessary.

[Egan_BW]

At the very least, so long as you have a physical body you'll require a sense of pain, lest you carelessly break yourself.

[dragdeler]

-snip-

[Kagus]

Pain is a necessary warning indicator to encourage an action in order to avoid that pain. Example: You are sitting on a nail. Sitting on nails is bad for your health, so your body has adapted a pain response that encourages you to get off of the nail and avoid sitting on it again in the future.

However, trying to justify that the experience of pain is necessary or desirable in and of itself is a bit faulty, as that's a bit like coming up to a sign that says "WARNING: Rocks fall on this location!", commenting to yourself "Hmm, this sign is good and necessary" and then just standing there admiring the sign while rocks fall on the location and kill you.


Pain without context is not necessary, ethical, or desirable. And this is coming from someone who self-harms.