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[Solifuge]

Why is it so hard to say no
Hiding and ignoring messages is pretty easy at first, but in the end it feels even shittier.

I can relate to this. This was me for many years after I moved out, and I still fall into these habits sometimes without realizing it.

I love my parents and they love me, but they have their issues. I moved out in a hurry when we were on pretty bad terms, when my Stepdad escalated from argument to violence. My Mom and he are both good people, but they're frustrated by things about their lives, and often vent it by picking at the people around them rather than addressing the cause of the frustration. Being around both of them when they're in a negative mood (which can strike whenever) is incredibly frustrating, takes a lot of mental/emotional energy, and I can't always handle it.

For a while, I dodged calls. I didn't know how to say no, and I hated myself for doing it that way, but I had a lot to do to get my life in order. Being around them all the time was dredging up a lot of old bad experiences and generally taking the piss out of me. Eventually, they started showing up at my apartment unannounced, which I did my best to deal with. They did that a few times, until one time when I said that I understood they drove all that way to see me, but that I needed them to leave and not show up like that without at least clearing it with me first. I felt like garbage for that too, and we didn't talk for a while after that, but eventually things did get better. They learned my boundaries, and I started to figure out how to set boundaries with people too. It's still hard to be around them some days, but we've all grown a bit and can get along well enough.

If this relates to your experience, try not to hate yourself for needing to set boundaries. Also, don't avoid setting those boundaries when you have to. You're probably feeling beat up by being around them for good reason, and aren't in the wrong for how you feel. You also don't have any responsibility to subject yourself to their behavior, but if you want to learn to be around them, you can do that too. I'm not a therapist, but I'd bet that setting gentle but clear boundaries and such will help with this in the long term.

TL;DR - If you only want to have lunch, you can let them know that. If they press, you can be nice and still stand your ground. If they're upset, they're going to have to learn to deal with that; you're your own dude.

[SalmonGod]

Shitty thing about boundaries is the longer you've known a person, the more difficult it is to put them in place where there were none before.

[Rolan7]

Yeah...

Eventually, they started showing up at my apartment unannounced, which I did my best to deal with. They did that a few times, until one time when I said that I understood they drove all that way to see me, but that I needed them to leave and not show up like that without at least clearing it with me first. I felt like garbage for that too, and we didn't talk for a while after that, but eventually things did get better. They learned my boundaries, and I started to figure out how to set boundaries with people too. It's still hard to be around them some days, but we've all grown a bit and can get along well enough.

Oh, fuck...  Yeah both my parents did that too (separately, natch) when I still lived in the tri-city area.  Later I moved an hour away (to a really terrible situation which taught me alcohol), and now about 3 hours away.

You probably handled it better, standing up for yourself and setting boundaries based on mutual respect.  I kinda just ran away from the problems, but not all the way.  And still driving 3 hours to visit every month or so, until I totally lost it last December...

If this relates to your experience, try not to hate yourself for needing to set boundaries. Also, don't avoid setting those boundaries when you have to. You're probably feeling beat up by being around them for good reason, and aren't in the wrong for how you feel. You also don't have any responsibility to subject yourself to their behavior, but if you want to learn to be around them, you can do that too. I'm not a therapist, but I'd bet that setting gentle but clear boundaries and such will help with this in the long term.

Thanks...  I think the space I established has really helped with my relationship with both of them.  I am in contact with them a lot, just not in person.  I haven't really addressed that issue with them directly, because it feels so arbitrary and... crazy.  But it's very real and I have to work with it.

Going to have lunch tomorrow with dad and his gf and see how it goes.  Probably fine.

Aside:  I really wish there was a way to say "dad's girlfriend" without implying negative feelings.  She's great, and I really appreciate her basically raising me through college and half of high school.  They've been together for about 14 years now, they just don't want to formally marry is all.  So she's for all intents and purposes my step-mom.

[Helgoland]

Quasi-stepmom? That's how I refer to my quasi-brothers-in-law, anyway.

[Solifuge]

Good luck, Rolan. You've got this. *Thumbs up*

P.S. Yeah, probably just call her whatever you feel comfortable calling her; maybe she'd not mind being Step-Mom? Sometimes I call my Step-Dad by his first name (that's what he was growing up), and sometimes I call him my Other Dad. I usually take the in-law part out of brother and sister in law too, but we're really close.

[Rolan7]

(:
And yeah I just call her by her first name.  But I have told her in person (stone sober, which... I guess I need to say, because I drink a lot), on at least two occasions, how much she means to me.  It's not like she's pressuring me to call her mom.  She is impressively dedicated to helping people.  It's related to her job, and she worked hard on me too.

She's a bit of a nag but like...  The best possible nag you could possibly imagine.  I love her like a friend.
_{That's higher than family, for me.}

[Solifuge]

I love her like a friend.
_{That's higher than family, for me.}

Funny thing. "Blood is thicker than water" is a misquote as I understand it. The original goes "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." To step outside the religious context, it means that the bonds we choose (our friends) are stronger and more vital than the ones we're born to.

[Avis-Mergulus]

Hell, you could just refer to her as your step-mom if that's what she basically is to you. I doubt she'd mind, though you might still ask her just in case.

[penguinofhonor]

As far as I can tell, the oldest version is "Blood's thicker than water." from page 281 of this book. There are older versions, but they're a bit more different and mostly in other languages. "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" seems to be a newer writer that was trying to explain their interpretation of "Blood's thicker than water," and people found their version profound enough to quote.

[Descan]

so basically exactly how language and meaning develop normally

yeah i prefer the newer

[Graknorke]

I think the point is that the Johns were basically bullshitting in their book in order to make the proverb mean what they wanted it to. That's some hardcore prescriptivism right there.

[Lord Shonus]

"Blood is thicker than Water" as meaning "family first" can be traced back at least to the twelfth century, as the basic phrase (although not in modern English, of course) can be found with that meaning in works from that time. "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" meaning "family second, bonds of choice fist" can't be found earlier than the middle of the twentieth century. In other words, the former is not only the most common usage by far, but is at least seven hundred years older.

[Solifuge]

Good fact checking all around.

The old phrase is still misguided crap, IMO.

[Tiruin]

I've been thinking about one of my friends for the past week (insomuch that it's been poking me while I've been being silly with my exams, during exams :v) and...I just wish he's ok. Terrified with some certain thoughts he's been having because of lacking support there (or reaching out to support? Unsure how to word it).

[Rolan7]

Uh so first off thanks for all the support, it really helped.  Secondly, I spent pretty much the whole day with my dad and it was...
...
Actually just fine and kinda cool, like hanging out with any other friend!?
No but actually I kinda saw this coming, I just didn't want to get my hopes up.  I'm fine here in my new home city.  I don't feel trapped, I feel comfortable and myself, and the air isn't so muggy and hot all the time...

So yeah we'll probably hang out some tomorrow too, and I'll probably have him as a guest for a few days next month.  We did that last year and it was pretty cool (I mean, too long is too long, but that's actually normal).

Hooray for home-castles and awesome non-terrible cities