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[Muz]

It hasn't been mentioned here yet, but one of the things that the recent WikiLeaks documents showed? North Korea sold Iran a (going from memory here) dozen missles generally designed to cary nuclear weapons, and the US found out about it. I'm too lazy to post a link at this hour, but any article about the documents will probably mention it.

Um, didn't NK's widely publicized missile test flop? I don't know why Iran would buy a bunch of duds from them, when Iran clearly has superior weapons technology. Maybe they want to give the USA an excuse to attack them.

[Criptfeind]

This is bad. The world has been experiencing more and more wars. There have only been 3 weeks that no conflict has been ongoing in the last 50 years, where as 200 years ago that would be unheard of.

You're kidding, right? Warfare, if anything, has slowed ever since WWII. Throughout histroy, there not being a war going on at any given time is the exception, not the rule.

France has mellowed out a lot since then though.

[smjjames]

This is bad. The world has been experiencing more and more wars. There have only been 3 weeks that no conflict has been ongoing in the last 50 years, where as 200 years ago that would be unheard of.

Not 100% sure what you mean here.

2<0?

You also have to take into account of the fact that we are ALOT more mobile than we were 200 years ago, we can send soldiers by plane somewhere within hours when it would take weeks by ship.

[Grakelin]

I lol every single time I see "North Korea can't handle American Firepower" in this thread and in other places.

Yeah, the US is going to kick Korea's ass and get home by Christmas, just like they did with Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq!

[Criptfeind]

That's easy, if we abolish Christmas.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I lol every single time I see "North Korea can't handle American Firepower" in this thread and in other places.

Yeah, the US is going to kick Korea's ass and get home by Christmas, just like they did with Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq!

Given that:

A. A war with NK would include more than the US.

B. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq actually had functioning governments.

C. The previous nations had a known loyalist population (Granted, NK might as well, but we don't know for certain how much of the population follows Kim-Jong Il's personality cult just to stay alive and how many buy into it).

I'd say that the idea that North Korea will quicky crumble isn't as presumptous as it would be otherwise.

[Grakelin]

This is what MetalSlimeHunt just said:

A: The US did NOT bring allies into Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

B: North Korea does not have a functioning government.

C: North Korea does not have an extremely patriotic citizenry.


I can't argue with ignorance!

[MrWiggles]

I lol every single time I see "North Korea can't handle American Firepower" in this thread and in other places.

Yeah, the US is going to kick Korea's ass and get home by Christmas, just like they did with Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq!

Given that:

A. A war with NK would include more than the US.

B. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq actually had functioning governments.

C. The previous nations had a known loyalist population (Granted, NK might as well, but we don't know for certain how much of the population follows Kim-Jong Il's personality cult just to stay alive and how many buy into it).

I'd say that the idea that North Korea will quicky crumble isn't as presumptous as it would be otherwise.

Well, with Afghanistan, and Iraq, its not that we're still fighting a war there. Both invasions were over rather quickly. Whats taking time, is building up and rebuilding a barely functional civilian preindustrial infrastructure, to post industrial standards. On top of that, is also supporting the new government that has formed since then, making sure it doesn't fall to outside forces from noting being able to assert its own fledging sovereignty.

That takes years. Decades. Israel, is still somewhat dependent on US and UK aid after its foundation over half a century ago.

When the US was forming, we had ample support from the French for almost a hundred years before we were really standing on our own two feet. And it wasn't until WW1 where we could stand quite independently as a nation, this was then solidified in WW2.


As for Vietnam War,  well. There were a lot more things going there, which is what it last some 20+ years. Conquering the Vetcong(sp) wasn't exactly the goal. The goal was to stop the spread of Communism, and promote democracy. Then there the fact that the Vetcong tactics work quite well against conventional military. Then there is the fact that they were receiving aid from larger red states ect ect ect.

The comparisons here, aren't fair to a possible another police action with Korea. What will probably happen will be  repeat of the last war.

We fight them until an armistice is reached and stop being aggressive.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

This is what MetalSlimeHunt just said:

A: The US did NOT bring allies into Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

I didn't say that. I meant that a war with North Korea would see much higher multinational cooperation than any of those three invasions, most of all from South Korea.

B: North Korea does not have a functioning government.

They might have a functioning millitary, but secret police and a token constitution while the nation starves does not a functioning government make.

C: North Korea does not have an extremely patriotic citizenry.

I said that we don't know how much of North Korea's population is extremely patriotic. Anyone who doesn't at least appear to follow the Great Leader like a god is long dead/sent to a death camp along with two generations of their family. How many are genuine and how many are putting up a facade is somthing that we simply do not know.

[Lord Shonus]

I lol every single time I see "North Korea can't handle American Firepower" in this thread and in other places.

Yeah, the US is going to kick Korea's ass and get home by Christmas, just like they did with Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq!

Given that:

A. A war with NK would include more than the US.

B. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq actually had functioning governments.

C. The previous nations had a known loyalist population (Granted, NK might as well, but we don't know for certain how much of the population follows Kim-Jong Il's personality cult just to stay alive and how many buy into it).

I'd say that the idea that North Korea will quicky crumble isn't as presumptous as it would be otherwise.

When the US was forming, we had ample support from the French for almost a hundred years before we were really standing on our own two feet. And it wasn't until WW1 where we could stand quite independently as a nation, this was then solidified in WW2.

Umm, no. By 1798 the US and France had already fought a war. (Granted, it was an undeclared naval war, but still.)


For those who don't know, take the military force of Iraq (2003), Iraq (1991), Afgahanistan (2001) and Vietnam (the entire war), and add them together. Now double that. Now you're approaching NK military levels. If war breaks out, there will be no "ass-kicking" involved.

[Sheb]

As for Vietnam War,  well. There were a lot more things going there, which is what it last some 20+ years. Conquering the Vetcong(sp) wasn't exactly the goal. The goal was to stop the spread of Communism, and promote democracy. Then there the fact that the Vetcong tactics work quite well against conventional military. Then there is the fact that they were receiving aid from larger red states ect ect ect.

Lol. That's why the US spent the Cold War subverting every democratically elected government that threatened his interests, and supported dictatoriships from Chili to Indonesia to crush the communists.

The goal was to promote capitalism, not democracy.

[Duke 2.0]

 Guerilla warfare is a very powerful tactic to use when your opponents has overwhelming military superiority over you. It can cause their lives to be hell as you constantly do surprise attacks and never reveal your base of operations. This, coupled with battling a foe that cares more about regional stability than outright conquering means they can use quite a few tactics that makes even a small band a huge threat that takes years to eventually defeat.
 I don't know if N Korea would try that. They have a huge army and may simply try for a huge army approach to things. The main point of guerilla warfare is mobility and being able to escape. If they have artillery emplacements and stuff I don't see how they could pull off that sort of tactic without leaving their military infrastructure to crumble.

[Lord Shonus]

Mainly, the US was trying to limit Soviet expansion. Also bail out France.

[RedWarrior0]

NK aggression may be good here. It pisses China off about violence on the doorstep. North Korea without Chinese support is an easier foe than North Korea with Chinese nonmilitary aid.

[Lord Shonus]

The best and worst case scenarios in the event of war are direct Chinese military intervention.