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[gtmattz]

The common terminology for pumps is that the 'front' of the pump is the pickup, and the 'back' is the output, I have no idea why you would assume he is referring to the input...

[Uzu Bash]

Right, I get it. Back is forward, the direction of flow is backward, all vectors face backwards, and wherever the pump operator faces, who frigging knows. Understood.

[gtmattz]

Right, I get it. Back is forward, the direction of flow is backward, all vectors face backwards, and wherever the pump operator faces, who frigging knows. Understood.

Why are you being such a turd?  I said nothing of that sort...  Wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something?

In real life, as well as DF, the 'front' of a pump is the side where the suction is, and the 'back' is the side where stuff comes out.  This is pretty simple no?

[Uzu Bash]

Why are you being such a turd?

Me? Look, I thought you were getting personal. Not that it had anything to do with my genuine bewilderment in case you were being sincere and not headfucking with me.

Yeah, seriously that makes no sense. One direction a pump operator can't approach a pump is from the output side. Also the side, obviously, that water shoots from. They then have a choice of facing away from the flow, sideways, or backward. Which direction do you think a pump would be designed for if not the direction that water is going to project from?

So yeah, I'm sincerely confused by being told that the front is the back.

[gtmattz]

So yeah, I'm sincerely confused by being told that the front is the back.

When did I say that? when did ANYONE say that?


Here, how about a picture to shown EXACTLY what I am saying:

Why are you being such a turd?

Me?

Yes, you... First you get up in Hyndis' face about using DFMA, then you are taking quite the aggressive stance when I am trying to help explain what Shoku was saying.  So, yes, you have been being a 'turd'.

[Uzu Bash]

Yes. I see. The orientation of the pump is exactly opposite of the pressure vector it produces.

But do you see how many terminology problems that's going to cause for people who share your language?

[Uzu Bash]

Among the many non-intuitive things I've learned today: forward pressure will not create flow, rebounds rock like a motherfucker, pump operators sit backwards, and I'm a shit. It's been a productive day, in all.

[Heliman]

Eh, considering how force vectors are only relative to arbitrary zero-points it doesn't matter. Unless walking backwards seems confusing to you, which I'm sure it isn't, it shouldn't be too hard to understand this concept.

[gtmattz]

All I know is that IN REAL LIFE the 'front' of a pump is the part that sucks, and the 'back' is the part that blows.  Who cares about pressure vectors or the price of tea in china for that matter, this is standard terminology when it comes to pumps, and it applies to DF just as well.

[Heliman]

Oh! I suppose since we're on the subject of water reactors I suppose that makes this the best place to run my new chain reactor design by you guys.

To begin with, I'm judging water reactor productivity by the units of power generated divided by the amount of squares rendered unusable by the generator; For now I'll shorten it to P/S.
I was looking at the current

standard 2-wheel reactor design shown on the wiki

& found that, by clumping these reactors together in a long line it will form the equation ((170x)/(9+40x)) where x is the number of reactors bunched together. The limit as x approaches infinity for this equation is 170/40, or 4.25 P/S, so 4.25 is the approximate P/S for very long chains of the standard design.


This is my Design, which, although I am unsure if this has been done before, I call the Skinny 9 model (SN)

Code: [Select]

W=water wheel
- =ground
.=Open Space
O=wall
X=back of pump
x=front of pump

Level 1

OOOOO
O--OO
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
OOO-O
OO-OO
O-OOO
OOOOO

Level 2

-----
-W---
-WO--
-W---
-X---
-x---
-.---
-----

Would this be a working design? If it's successful, chains will follow the equation (80+90x/(43+19x). Taking the limit as x approaches infinity, longer chains will be approximately 4.74 P/S, which is an increase of .48!

[Naz]

Wow, wasn't expecting anywhere near this much feedback. Thanks guys. I've got one more trick to attempt to make my current design work before I scrap it, drain the reactor and start over. I'm going to install what's best described as a "disperser" ie. a floor in front of the northernmost wheel to cause the water to flow out horizontally further before it has a chance to drop into the lower level, from what I could see there was only one wheel in each group that was actually powered. So far all I've managed to accomplish (besides getting damn good insight into how these things work) is contaminating the brook and my entire water supply with an interesting mix of golden salve and weasel blood.

EDIT: I'll keep you guys posted on how that works.

[Yalishandaw]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh! I suppose since we're on the subject of water reactors I suppose that makes this the best place to run my new chain reactor design by you guys.

To begin with, I'm judging water reactor productivity by the units of power generated divided by the amount of squares rendered unusable by the generator; For now I'll shorten it to P/S.
I was looking at the current

standard 2-wheel reactor design shown on the wiki

& found that, by clumping these reactors together in a long line it will form the equation ((170x)/(9+40x)) where x is the number of reactors bunched together. The limit as x approaches infinity for this equation is 170/40, or 4.25 P/S, so 4.25 is the approximate P/S for very long chains of the standard design.


This is my Design, which, although I am unsure if this has been done before, I call the Skinny 9 model (SN)

Code: [Select]

W=water wheel
- =ground
.=Open Space
O=wall
X=back of pump
x=front of pump

Level 1

OOOOO
O--OO
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
OOO-O
OO-OO
O-OOO
OOOOO

Level 2

-----
-W---
-W---
-W---
-X---
-x---
-.---
-----

Would this be a working design? If it's successful, chains will follow the equation (80+90x/(43+19x). Taking the limit as x approaches infinity, longer chains will be approximately 4.74 P/S, which is an increase of .48!

That looks pretty neat.
How would you expand that design?
You probably have a good reason for this, but why isn't there a second waterwheel on the right?
Likely related to the above, how are you defining useable space?
and lastly, are you not counting multiple z-levels in how much space is used?  It seems like it might not matter, but you might be able to take advantage of that.

Yay for SCIENCE(it was !!SCIENCE!!, but, y'know, the water, from the reactor... unless it was lignite !!SCIENCE!!  Too bad you can't make pumps and waterwheels out of lignite.)

[Heliman]

1:

Code: [Select]

Level 1

OOOOO
O--OO
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
OOO-O
OO-OO
O-OOO
OOOOO

Level 2

-----
-W---
-WO--
-W---
-W---
-WO--
-W---
-W---
-WO--
-W---
-X---
-x---
-.---
-----
2: ...>_< I guess I can use those spaces, lol, though I don't know how flow will effect the second side, because the diagonal tiles in between the two cancels pressure, which is the main reason I'm concerned.

3: Good question. Usable space is a square that a dwarf can either  1:walk on, or 2:mine through without causing the generator to break down
4:Totally counting every single square involved in the system.

[Naz]

Nope, disperser didn't work. Beginning the draining process now...man that sucks.

[Yalishandaw]

This would solve the diagonal question and allow waterwheels to share axles. 

Code: [Select]

W=water wheel
- =ground
.=Open Space
O=wall
X=back of pump
x=front of pump

Level 1

OOOOO
O---O
O-O-O
O-O-O
O-O-O
OOO-O
OO-OO
O-OOO
OOOOO

Level 2

-----
-W-W-
-WOW-
-W-W-
-X---
-x---
-.---
-----The middle strip/walkway is now closed at the top(except from above), but what could you actually use it for,besides a corridor?  I'd have a hard time finding another use.

Also, don't waterwheels only transmit power from the middle square?  If so, you'd need a lot of axles and gear assemblies.  That seems to be one of the main advantages of the v design.

Ah, here we are.  http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Water_wheel

"Although you can build a stable water wheel on solid ground, this isn't going to do you any good. For this reason, water wheels are almost exclusively built in a hanging state with gaps in the floor below. To do this the water wheel must be attached to a nearby machine component on either side of its center tile. Do not hang it from a gear assembly you wish to control with a switch, a disconnected gear assembly can't support anything and will cause the waterwheel to deconstruct."