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Author Topic: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!  (Read 3309 times)

mrtspence

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Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« on: October 21, 2010, 09:23:27 pm »

Alrighty! A few days ago I asked for Dwarven Landmine trap designs which led me to begin testing of said deadly devices.

Before I discuss my tests, I will disclose my setup. There was a gantry built to house various sized slabs of walls and floors for testing. I arrayed migrants in warrens 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 tiles away from the blast to view the damage.

THE FINDINGS:

Initial test: I dropped a 5x3x7 chunk of walls. The dwarves at 1 and 3 tiles away were killed while the one 5 away sustained a few serious injuries and lots of bruising. 7 and 9 remained unharmed.

Second test: I dropped a 3x5x1 chunk of walls and received nearly identical results with the exception of a dwarf 3 tiles away surviving the initial impact but dying of his wounds shortly thereafter.

Third test: I dropped a 3x3x1 chunk of walls and killed the dwarf 1 square away whilst only wounding the dwarves 3 tiles away. 5 tiles and onward were not badly injured.

Fourth test: I dropped a 3x3x1 chunk of walls from a few z-levels higher and it seemed to cause more dust. This needs more investigation, methinks.

Conclusions to draw:

Large-Scale Cave-In traps are really fucking deadly. Imagine a gobbo siege moving through the trap area. You could easily wreak terrible, terrible damage on a clustered force.

Bigger isn't better. I couldn't really detect any big difference that couldn't also be attributed to dwarven toughness fluctuations between the taller trap and the shorter one. Area seems to make a difference, but in a very linear fashion.

Taller might be better. Data isn't well researched, but a cave-in from higher up might cause more damage.



Another interesting thing to note--some nearby wildlife of Dwarfish size or larger (donkeys) were hurled into walls and exploded. Clearly having walls set up around such a trap could greatly increase its deadliness.


With all of the above information in mind, I would like to propose this trap idea:

Code: [Select]
_XXXXX_
X_____X
X_____X
X_____X
X_____X
X_____X
_XXXXX_


Basically, you just create a big square with the corners left open as you desire (to let baddies in). Leave 2-3 spaces between the edge of your cave-in section and the wall (to maximize guaranteed kills and efficiency). Build a few bridges above to let you easily build floor tiles as desired. If you want to be really dwarfy, build them really high up in the air.

Benefits: Really deadly.
Works on titans and trap-avoiders.
Can do a lot of damage.
Is indiscriminate.
Fairly efficient and easy to set up (no pumpstacks required or any sort of later-game industries).
Not to time-consuming to reload (depends on the scale of the design, but I set my idlers to masonry anyways, so it rarely takes long).
Immensely Dwarfy (crushing things under rocks, sending them hurtling into things and turning them into chunks, etc.)

Downsides:
Not as reload-able as say, a cage trap.
Takes a lot of planning compared to a simpler trap.
No magma is involved (unless you wanted to move the wall back a few squares so it just causes them to be deflected into a magma pit).

 
Thoughts and input is appreciated--especially if you know how heights modifies cave-in power.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 09:32:17 pm »

I feel like reposting this for the magma addicts out there.



z-1
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓

z0
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
7777777777
77I7777I77
7777777777
++++++++++++
7777777777
77I7777I77
7777777777
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓

The I are supports holding up single floor tiles. Fire one off and goodbye squad. Cave-in dust is fun to use as a way of hurling people around.
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bdunwithat

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 09:32:55 pm »

Very nice!

And on the deadliness-to-height ratio, all caveins fall at the same speed, regardless of height. They insta gib everything in theyre path, so high up cave-ins would only increase the area that gets instagibbed, AFAIK
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 09:34:36 pm »

Fourth test: I dropped a 3x3x1 chunk of walls from a few z-levels higher and it seemed to cause more dust.

I think that's what is meant by how height modifies power.
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I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

arzzult

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 09:59:44 pm »

I feel like reposting this for the magma addicts out there.



z-1
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
7777777777
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓

z0
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
7777777777
77I7777I77
7777777777
++++++++++++
7777777777
77I7777I77
7777777777
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓

The I are supports holding up single floor tiles. Fire one off and goodbye squad. Cave-in dust is fun to use as a way of hurling people around.

Would this also generate magma mist? I think I recall reading some where that dropping floor or wall tiles into magma like that could generate magma mist.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 10:15:06 pm »

Yup.

Good deathtraps work on multiple levels.
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I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

LealNightrunner

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 10:16:40 pm »

But what's holding the supports up... or can they just be built floating over magma like that?
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arzzult

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 10:25:42 pm »

But what's holding the supports up... or can they just be built floating over magma like that?

The ceiling above the supports hold them up.
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I just realized two things. 1. For the Win and F___ the World have the same initials. 2. They have the same meaning in Dwarf Fortress.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2010, 10:28:42 pm »

Not pictured: Roof
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

krenshala

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2010, 10:53:26 pm »

I'm now picturing the OPs ground zero room with a tower over it filled with a wall every other z-level, each with its own support ready to be dropped.  Stack 'em six deep, and you've got a six shot cave-in "gun" ready to defend your fortress.  Each successive layer upwards increase the drop by two z-levels, so you can prime things based on how difficult your target is to kill.

Oooh, do I remember correctly that a falling wall can (will?) break a floor tile causing whatever it just landed on to collapse as well?  If it works the way I'm thinking (and, I assure you, there are probably lots of things I'm misunderstanding here ;) ) you could end up with: oh, its only a gobbo ... drop the bottom layer only; or, oh crap, its a TITAN! Fire number six and hit him with all of it at once!

I so need to better manage the Fun I have in DF so I have more time to try out these kinds of things in game. :D
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arzzult

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2010, 10:59:12 pm »

Any falling natural or constructed wall/floor/staircase/etc. will punch through floor tiles if there is not a wall tile underneath the floor tile.
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krenshala

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2010, 11:04:07 pm »

i was thinking layered walls, each supported by surrouding (constructed) floor tiles.  If you collapse the top wall, will it bring down the wall under it, since that wall is only supported by (at least one) floor tile(s) with empty space directly below it?

I guess this is one I can test when I get home from work tonight.
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Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Xenos

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 12:31:52 am »

is a ring as deadly as a block?  if so, we could get very creative with these trap designs, maximizing the area that would be affected.
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This is a useful feature..and this is DF.. so im gonna assume its bugged
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expwnent

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 03:06:46 am »

If you wanted magma to be involved, you could make it like this:

Level +10: platform level.
level 0: walking level.
level -1: magma level

When the platform falls, it should crush the floor of the walking level into nonexistence, making everyone fall into magma, killing them twice.
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ivansanchez

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Re: Dwarven Cave-in-Trap !!SCIENCE!!
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 11:44:34 am »

Level +10: platform level.
level 0: walking level.
level -1: magma level

Just a crazy thought: why if you build a zigzagging walkway, like this (side view):
Code: [Select]
      I           I
      W           W
___________________>
     >_____________<
     <_____________>
     >_____________<
     <_____________>
     >_____________<
     <______________________
Magma~~Magma~~Magma~~Magma

Granted, resetting this kind of thing would be hell, but you could trap an entire goblin siege in there. Oh, how I'd like to see that.
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