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[bloop_bleep]

I think it reflects a trend for the modern left to hyper focus on symbolism and words to the detriment of material reality. If I were a conspiratorial sort I might say that this has been engineered by those who have stake in the game to create a managed, impotent opposition.

The primary source of cancel culture is conservatives, though? They're the ones actually passing legislature to see people driven into nonexistence and ejected from society, and they've made it clear they're intent on pushing that straight to the point of explicit genocide. The term's primary use, and by a wide, wide margin, is a snarl word by such folks whenever they see someone else going to even a fraction of the lengths they do.

About the worst you see from the modern left is an occasional mis-aimed dogpile by internet folks (which often enough is driven as much or more by random internet fuckwads as anyone leftwing), and it's pretty rare those are actually mis-aimed. It's a trend among the left of meaningful scope in the mind of rightwing talking heads, not reality, and amplified primarily as a cover for reactionary shitheelery.

I was not speaking about that, though. My point was a criticism of the approach of the modern left to achieve its goals, which I think misses the point and is not as effective as it could be.

[Lord Shonus]

Its why for instance we say "Climate Change" instead of Global Warming, because GW sounds worse and scarier, so they changed the word to something neutral.

Climate Change is a much more accurate term, because the shifting in a lot of important air and water currents many places aren't simply getting hotter (some are actually getting colder, and many are getting much bigger extremes in both directions) even if the planet as a whole is getting warmer. Destabilizing the entire climate paradigm is a much better description of what is going on and avoids lazy "this is the coldest winter we've ever had! so much for climate change!" comments.

[Il Palazzo]

I have heard the argument that 'climate change' was pushed by the liberals to replace 'global warming' so as to cover the climate hoax falling apart. Now I hear the conservatives did it to control the narrative. (As if both terms haven't been in use in literature since climate science was a thing)
The readiness with which some people want to make everything a US partisan issue is getting tiresome.

[nenjin]

"getting tiresome"?

I think the overall shift to climate change is that Global Warming implied everything would just heat up. When climate change more accurately reflects that the weather is just going to get batshit crazy.

[jipehog]

Conservatives have been canceling stuff since before the dawn of civilization.

Not conservatives, but public shaming have been a common tool by people for a long time, unsurprisingly its a topic that has been addressed by various religions, I believe Abrahamic religions command you to rebuke others to correct their behavior, however, it comes with certain caveats like do so in private to avoid public embarrassment, with underlaying goal if being helpful not hateful judgmental ahole.

Nice ideal although not necessarily one that everyone live by, especially when we go out of our immediate circle of family, friends, community.

There is a difference of course now, which is that Liberals [..]

IMO the main difference is the internet and its effect on a society which spends increasingly more time online. Often the internet creates echo-chambers rather than bring people together, and there many studies that show a link between anonymity and abusive behavior. Meanwhile social media, unlike its traditional counterpart, due to its distributed nature have no adult in charge who could put the brakes on something.

In the past you could hold people accountable, but you had put an effort into it, while now days when our whole life is online and anyone can be harrassed with no effort, recourse or wish to talk. This especially problematic for marginalized, bored and lonely individuals who desire to belong and sense of purpose who find themselves in school like cliques online, and behave like angry or self absorbed kids mainly care about their online status (btw in the extreme it is the same group of people terrorist try to recruit from)

So what do the republicans do? They make up a new negative term focused on Liberal reaction to people saying racist, sexist, or even outright genocidal shit to try to control the narrative.

I don't know about republicans, far right, etc mentioned so far. From my limited experience here, most active posters here seem to be left of center on USA scale, and they also sometimes rush to judge, overreact or unnecessarily lashing out without considering the context, as well as throw around offensive slurs and leap to stereotypes ( for example when concerning musk and SpaceX)

This seems to have an overview of what happened.

Bit shitty really.

That is an understatement. Also wouldn't be surprised if many aren't as strong as her.

[MrRoboto75]

Honestly repubs keep doing the culture war crap because the alternative would be to actually govern and solve real problems.

[jipehog]

Shame is a powerful tool for the weak to punch up against the strong. "Cancel Culture" is sometimes used by those who should be ashamed refusing to. Certainly there are times when it is misused, but it's like...genuinely the only tool the masses have right now.

Is that so different from Trump populist narrative, that they the 'people' fight the the 'Urban Elites', and justifying their "only" means to an end.

Bottom line you have two self righteous sides screaming at each others.

I think it reflects a trend for the modern left to hyper focus on symbolism and words to the detriment of material reality. If I were a conspiratorial sort I might say that this has been engineered by those who have stake in the game to create a managed, impotent opposition.

I don't see it as being engineered  or exclusive to any one political side, but a direct result of many cumulative changes in the media landscape e.g. things like changes to monetization which shape reportage for smaller outlets.

[Great Order]

My big issue with cancel culture (And I have a lot of other ones. I'm not opposed to the basic idea, ie you do something shitty and you get punished societally as opposed to legally, but there's loads of problems with it) is the lack of forgiveness in it.

So often once someone gets cancelled, that's it. They can backtrack, apologise, turn their life around, but the cancellers will forever see them as the person they first attacked. There's being suspicious of an apology (especially when they don't actually make any changes after) and then there's being utterly merciless.

I remember seeing something similar with a musician, I think they did black metal? Regardless, a genre filled with bigots, fascists and the like. The guy was gay, turned his back on all of that stuff, and got associated with another band for a while. The article I was reading said that the author would consider that band tainted and bigoted if they still associated with him, even though he'd emphatically denounced all the bigotry.

EDIT: In my WTF: I remember the intro song to Balamory. Which isn't that weird except I have literally no recollection of ever having watched it. Every time I've listened to something from my childhood, even from a super young age, it's brought back memories. I'm blanking on this one.

[JoshuaFH]

That's because it's not about 'punishment' or 'reform' for the targets, the Cancellers could not care less about any actually productive change being induced. They just want someone to beat on and harass. If we lived in some kind of sick society that, by lottery every day, picked out one person to be a pariah to jeer at, humiliate, and get gang-beaten to death, it would be these Cancellers that would be first in line to stomp on that daily pariah, because they just want a target that they can sadistically torture without consequence. The Cancellers are scum, the "Culture" is just a facade.

[EuchreJack]

I think it reflects a trend for the modern left to hyper focus on symbolism and words to the detriment of material reality. If I were a conspiratorial sort I might say that this has been engineered by those who have stake in the game to create a managed, impotent opposition.

The primary source of cancel culture is conservatives, though? They're the ones actually passing legislature to see people driven into nonexistence and ejected from society, and they've made it clear they're intent on pushing that straight to the point of explicit genocide. The term's primary use, and by a wide, wide margin, is a snarl word by such folks whenever they see someone else going to even a fraction of the lengths they do.

About the worst you see from the modern left is an occasional mis-aimed dogpile by internet folks (which often enough is driven as much or more by random internet fuckwads as anyone leftwing), and it's pretty rare those are actually mis-aimed. It's a trend among the left of meaningful scope in the mind of rightwing talking heads, not reality, and amplified primarily as a cover for reactionary shitheelery.

I was not speaking about that, though. My point was a criticism of the approach of the modern left to achieve its goals, which I think misses the point and is not as effective as it could be.

By "modern", I assume you mean post-WWII.  It's not exactly new...

[EuchreJack]

Honestly repubs keep doing the culture war crap because the alternative would be to actually govern and solve real problems.

Hm, no that is too simplistic.

It comes down to mobilizing masses of people. Both political parties exist to profit the rich.
The Democrats do that indirectly by promising to fund the poor in such a way as to benefit the rich.
The Republicans do that directly by keeping the rich from paying taxes.

Thus the Democrats have a direct way to get the masses to assist them: Money.
The Republicans NEED the culture wars to mobilize masses of people to support them.  They're certainly not gonna give them any money...

[jipehog]

I would say that there is nothing simple about managing political campaigns, that both of your parties seem to find way to kick back money to your constituents, and Democrats also changed their messaging to appeal to mobilize masses.

Also in perception many people voted for Trump because he was seen as giving the middle finger to the establishment, it seem some of your feelings are shared across the aisle.

Finally I see many of the same ills you see in USA also appear in other countries across the pond, so maybe it is not intrinsic to the USA, but other changes that underlying and exarbating these issues.

[MaxTheFox]

If you're a far-right public figure or an apologist thereof, or say genocidal shit in public, you deserve to get cancelled. They do not deserve existence. Otherwise nah.

[pisskop]

Fake bombs and failed coup: Moldova smolders on border of Russia's war
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/

Spoiler: article (click to show/hide)

CHISINAU, March 10 (Reuters) - A coup attempt, bomb hoaxes, internet hacks, fake conscription call-ups, mass protests: Moldova says it's had them all in the past year.

"We had an explosion of security threats starting February 24 last year," Interior Minister Ana Revenco told Reuters, describing a catalogue of crises she says has beset her nation and its pro-Western government since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

This small European country, a former Soviet republic, is a unique geopolitical cauldron.
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Moldova hosts the breakaway statelet of Transnistria - a sliver of land running along its eastern border with Ukraine that's controlled by pro-Russian separatists and garrisoned by Russian troops. The country is also home to the semi-autonomous region of Gagauzia, which is overwhelmingly pro-Russian too.

Moldovan officials paint a picture of a nation under constant duress from a misinformation and propaganda campaign orchestrated by Moscow which they say is designed to destabilize and undermine the government of President Maia Sandu, elected in 2020 on a promise to seek membership of the European Union.
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Revenco said it was an "informational war".

"It puts a very strong pressure on the psychological resilience of the population," she added.

The Moldovan government did not provide evidence to support its allegations of a Russian-led dirty tricks campaign and Reuters was unable to independently verify its account of events.

The Kremlin, which has repeatedly dismissed the Moldovan accusations of fomenting unrest, didn't respond to a request for comment for this article.
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"The leadership always focuses on everything anti-Russian," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said last month. "They are slipping into anti-Russian hysteria."

Nonetheless, Moscow has bristled at the possibility of Moldova - a country of 2.5 million people wedged between Ukraine and NATO member Romania - joining the EU.
Reuters Graphics
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OVER 400 BOMB THREATS

The alleged coup plot was publicised last month by Moldovan authorities, who said that the plan had been for agitators to enter Moldova from Russia and other countries in the region and attempt to provoke violent clashes. Officials expelled two unidentified alleged agents last week in connection with the unrest, though did not give details about the scale of the plan or whether it had met with any success.

Defence ministry official Valeriu Mija said the aim of the plot was as much to inflict a blow to the morale of the country as to actually overthrow the government: "We believe this incident is a part of psychological warfare."

Bomb hoaxes have, meanwhile, become part of everyday life, consuming official resources, according to the interior ministry, which said authorities had received more than 400 fake threats by phone or email since last summer, requiring interventions by a total of 9,000 police officers.

Chisinau Airport, educational institutions, courts, hospitals and shopping centres were among the hoax targets, the ministry said.

Moldovan authorities said a series of cyberattacks over the past year had seen some government websites temporarily crashed and the phones of several officials hacked.

"The peak was in August, attacks where the targets included a number of information systems here in the Ministry of Interior. To cut, as we say, our eyes and ears on the ground," Mija added. "Put that together with the fake bomb alerts, that is greatly testing our capabilities."
FAKE CONSCRIPTION NOTICES

Mounting tensions between Moscow and the West over Ukraine have raised the temperature in Moldova.

The main opposition Sor party denounces Sandu for taking the side of Ukraine, saying this increases the chance that Moldova could become embroiled in the conflict. It says it has collected 600,000 signatures demanding new elections.

During a protest in Moldova's capital last week attended by around 2,000 people, Marina Tauber - a former professional tennis player turned Sor lawmaker - led the crowd in anti-Sandu chants with a megaphone.

"She is trying to get involved our country in the war," the 36-year-old said. "We are a neutral country and we want peace."

The crowd chanted "Down with Maia Sandu!" and "Down with dictatorship!"

Officials in Sandu's government say they want to avoid being sucked into the conflict at all costs.

They say another tactic used by anti-government agitators is to circulate mocked-up conscription notices on social media, especially the Telegram messaging service, in an attempt to spread anxiety and sow the message that Moldova is heading towards war.
RUSSIAN TROOPS IN TRANSNISTRIA

An estimated 1,500 Russian troops are stationed in Transnistria, most of them recruited locally from Transnistrians with Russian passports.

Incoming Moldovan Prime Minister Dorin Recean has said Russian troops should be expelled from the region, while Moscow warns that any attack on its troops there would be seen as an attack on Russia.

The Moldovan government faces a delicate balancing act.

Transnistria is home to the Cuciurgan power plant, which supplies most of Moldova's electricity and gives the separatists immense leverage. As a result, the two sides are locked in a wearing cycle of permanent negotiation and mutual dependency.

Gagauzia, where most people speak Russian as well as the Turkish-linked Gagauz language and a statue of Vladimir Lenin stands guard before the parliament, poses its own challenges to the government's attempts to oppose Russia's influence.

Moldovans' confidence in Putin fell from 60% in January 2020 to 35% when the war started, according to polling last month by think-tank Watchdog.

In Gagauzia, the equivalent latter figure is 90%.

"Our roots are interwoven," said Valentina Koroleak, a journalist at Gagauzia's public television, when asked why people there saw Russia's invasion so differently from other parts of Moldova.

"We were born in the Soviet Union, we grew up on those classics, those songs, the music."

'fake conscription call-ups', just imagine a bunch of kids trolling you about being called up via selective service.

[McTraveller]

If you're a far-right public figure or an apologist thereof, or say genocidal shit in public, you deserve to get cancelled. They do not deserve existence. Otherwise nah.

Most people don't call that "getting cancelled" though.  Most people call it getting "cancelled" when people get drawn through the streets for a single comment or very few comments often taken way out of context.

If you are unequivocally saying "death to the <X>!" and people call you out, that's not being cancelled.  It's only "being cancelled" if you get drawn and quartered because you say something "insensitive" like "oh man I wish I had a darker complexion because I get sunburned so easily" and a mob thinking that is somehow a racist remark.