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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14928113 times)

methylatedspirit

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157680 on: July 01, 2021, 04:07:46 am »

I'm in the odd situation of being a native English speaker raised in a non-native environment. I think, speak, and write almost entirely in English. It would be almost impossible to say I'm not native. I think that led to some interesting interactions with regards to accent, since the IRL people in my life speak with a [REDACTED] accent, but the people online that I watch speak mostly in American and British accents. I don't think my accent is unplaceable, but I don't think it's easy to tell where I come from based on voice.

I was judged to have a strong Indian accent by another person (American?), so there's that. If "Indian" is the consensus, then I'm not even sure where the hell I got an Indian accent from.
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157681 on: July 01, 2021, 07:34:37 am »

Remember when we had that topic of what we sound like in English? I did think that something like this was probably the case back then, but I didn't want to sound overly critical by saying it ;)

The thing is that I think it's fairly easy to say that English is not our native tongue simply by the fact that we were not born to it -- it's not our mother tongue, and we spend the most formative years of our lives not speaking or even hearing it. It's only layered on top of the language of our birth, something we learn later. You say you think in English, and I will admit I sometimes to that too (because I spend too much time on the internet), but it's your English, already internalized through your accent.

That is what I meant when I said that the British of my schooling and American of my culture intake is still layered on top of my own original Swedish accent. I don't sound too thickly accented, I don't think, and many years ago I got a Cambridge "certificate of English speaking" and did very well, so I know that I (at least at that time) is not too bad at English. But my Swedish accent still comes through when I speak -- unless I deliberately make a conscious effort to speak English with some kind of accent, it will always default back to an English were the tone, stress, and speed is influenced by my Swedish. Because even though I on a logical level know that that isn't what English is like, that is still what body has internalized English as.

Also remember that hearing/understanding and speaking languages are too separate skills. I have a Catalan uncle who, after years of living with his Swedish wife can follow along when people speak Swedish and almost completely understand it, but he himself speaks only the barest of words. To learn to speak a language one must practice speaking it, not just hearing other people talk in it.

It's likely the case that you speak with some amount of accent, but not as much as people in your country generally do. Then, because you have less of an accent than they are used to, you come off as speaking better English to your family and friends -- for them it is how you differ from the general way of speaking there that matter, it's the absence of strong [your language] dialect that is remarkable, and thus what they notice. But for somebody from Italy, who is conditioned to Italian and Italian accent, it is how you differ from English that is noticeable, so they can quickly tell by the accent you have that it isn't mainline English.

The reason they guessed Indian is probably because they're not at all familiar with of the dialect of your language (or languages in your general region) sounds in English, so they just guessed some accent they were more familiar with that it sounds remotely like in their ears.

I also want to end this by saying that speaking with an accent is not something bad. I used to be ashamed of the mere concept of speaking with an accent and want to do away with in entirely, but over time I've changed my mind. My accent is    as much a part of who I am as anything else, something that informs others about me without me even having to expressly tell them about myself and my history. Accents are beautiful, my friend.

Or maybe I've just grown less inclined to build my self-image on how well I do things like speak English and the like.
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Secretdorf

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157682 on: July 01, 2021, 08:00:29 am »

I ,too, think/write in English most of the time but I don't remember ever speaking in english with anyone in my life. 
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Damiac

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157683 on: July 01, 2021, 09:31:57 am »

There was an idle game thread I was meaning to post in for a while now.

It's gone, I think it got nuked due to politics invading it?

Kinda sad but at the same time strange since it was literally 3 posts that could've ended then and there.
That actually is a bit of a wtf, 'cause the messy bit was cleaned up without much fuss, so far as I noticed, just a bit ago. Maybe boss toad misclicked somewhere and accidentally'd the thread?
Yeah, that is weird, because he already had cleaned up the messy stuff. Maybe someone started it back up again? Or maybe he pushed the wrong button like you said. Usually he just locks a thread, not straight up delete it.


Bill Cosby is walking free after his conviction got overturned on appeal due to a non-prosecution deal made in 2005
There are several layers of fucked-up-itude to this whole thing.  Why the hell was Cosby given a deal in the first place? Immunity deals in general are given out too freely by prosecutors with tunnel vision. It's not like there was a higher up person for Cosby to implicate in exchange for immunity.

But, having had given out that immunity, how does the state then fuck up and forget it's own immunity agreement when Cosby's attorney's brought that up first thing?  Were the judge and prosecutor just... stupid? Either there's an agreement or there isn't. Why waste everyone's time and money for a fake trial? Not to mention dragging the victims through the whole damn nightmare again.

Or, did they know it would never stand, but did it due to public pressure? That's arguably the worst possibility of the whole thing. Sure, I have no sympathy for Cosby, but if they'd do it here who says they haven't thrown other people in prison just to get the public off their back? 

Also, obviously this has a chilling effect on any future immunity deals. If the state can just say "Lol just kidding" why would anyone ever accept them? They're a valuable tool in some circumstances, like giving immunity to a low level organized crime figure so he'll tell you about the time him and the big boss murdered some guy.  Yeah, a murderer goes free, but you get the big guy. In some situations that's a worthwhile trade.
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157684 on: July 01, 2021, 01:44:26 pm »

What also drives me crazy is......Cosby has enough money to hire the best legal defense team money can buy. He didn't have bad representation, or was ignorant of the consequences of agreeing to give information to the DA. He was counseled to make this move. Both to testify and not to document the agreement between him and Castor.

If the best fucking lawyers an incredibly famous and rich person can afford led him to this place, that should stick. No average joe with a public defender would get such treatment, the courts would have been like "Sorry, tough shit, you got poor counsel." This was all calculated to minimize the risk to Cosby, and now they're acting like they were taken for a ride. Bullshit.
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Damiac

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157685 on: July 01, 2021, 02:26:57 pm »

What also drives me crazy is......Cosby has enough money to hire the best legal defense team money can buy. He didn't have bad representation, or was ignorant of the consequences of agreeing to give information to the DA. He was counseled to make this move. Both to testify and not to document the agreement between him and Castor.

If the best fucking lawyers an incredibly famous and rich person can afford led him to this place, that should stick. No average joe with a public defender would get such treatment, the courts would have been like "Sorry, tough shit, you got poor counsel." This was all calculated to minimize the risk to Cosby, and now they're acting like they were taken for a ride. Bullshit.
It's not really about Cosby at this point. It's about the government and the prosecutors.  The fact seems to be that there was such an agreement. Maybe your argument is a reasonable one to deny Cosby any compensation for false imprisonment (That would be the real kick in the balls...) But we can't let the government set bad precedent to go after someone, no matter how terrible the person in question may be, because they'll use that bad precedent against regular people. And of course, the government goes after normal people a lot more often then they go after the Cosbys and Weinsteins of the world.
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157686 on: July 01, 2021, 03:01:33 pm »

My point is, that this sounds a hell of a lot like collusion between the DA and Cosby's defense team. That things were deliberately mishandled to undermine the judicial process and provide Cosby a literal "get out of jail free card." The only thing that makes me question my own opinion is that he did serve two years before that card was played.

But collusion is so far the only explanation I can come up with why it was handled this way. Castor was clearly not interested in prosecuting. He needed closure because he didn't think or didn't want to make a career prosecuting Cosby. (Likely assuming there were more people that would angry at him for prosecuting Cosby than not.) His strategy didn't work, he lost his election anyways.

I dunno. The last person I feel is getting done dirty here is Cosby. He got exactly what he bargained for with _the DA he was dealing with._ Can someone provide a statute or precedent that says a new prosecutor is obligated to abide by the (completely fucking ridiculous deal) made by previous prosecutor?
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Grim Portent

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157687 on: July 01, 2021, 03:10:23 pm »

I dunno. The last person I feel is getting done dirty here is Cosby. He got exactly what he bargained for with _the DA he was dealing with._ Can someone provide a statute or precedent that says a new prosecutor is obligated to abide by the (completely fucking ridiculous deal) made by previous prosecutor?

The deal would have been with the prosecutor's office, not the prosecutor themself. The next prosecutor would be bound by the agreement unless it was specifically worded in some manner to provide a loophole for them.

If all it took to void a deal was to change who was in office then a lot of fundamental things would stop working, so generally speaking a deal is done with an organisation, agency or corporation, not the person who's representing that group at any given time.
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Damiac

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157688 on: July 01, 2021, 04:46:54 pm »

My point is, that this sounds a hell of a lot like collusion between the DA and Cosby's defense team. That things were deliberately mishandled to undermine the judicial process and provide Cosby a literal "get out of jail free card." The only thing that makes me question my own opinion is that he did serve two years before that card was played.

But collusion is so far the only explanation I can come up with why it was handled this way. Castor was clearly not interested in prosecuting. He needed closure because he didn't think or didn't want to make a career prosecuting Cosby. (Likely assuming there were more people that would angry at him for prosecuting Cosby than not.) His strategy didn't work, he lost his election anyways.

I dunno. The last person I feel is getting done dirty here is Cosby. He got exactly what he bargained for with _the DA he was dealing with._ Can someone provide a statute or precedent that says a new prosecutor is obligated to abide by the (completely fucking ridiculous deal) made by previous prosecutor?
I could go on at length about prosecutors and all the corruption that goes on there, both ways. All they care about are wins and losses. Better to leave the rich and famous alone when it's so much easier to hide exculpatory evidence and force poor kids into terrible plea deals under the threat of financial ruin...

I personally think they should be held criminally liable for a lot more, both in the form of sweet deals and in terms of violating rights.

But also fuck Bill Cosby, I wouldn't be sad if he were slowly eaten by badgers.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157689 on: July 01, 2021, 05:05:00 pm »


I dunno. The last person I feel is getting done dirty here is Cosby. He got exactly what he bargained for with _the DA he was dealing with._ Can someone provide a statute or precedent that says a new prosecutor is obligated to abide by the (completely fucking ridiculous deal) made by previous prosecutor?

The fundamental issue is that the later prosecution was done with the testimony that Cosby had provided under the condition that it not be used to prosecute him. This violated his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. That testimony, and anything derived from it, is the platonic ideal of the "fruit of the poison tree" legal concept.


It is critical to remember that this isn't simply about Cosby. Few would have minded if the appeals court had simply ignored the issue. But that would have created precedent that could be used to justify deceptive deals with less-obviously-guilty suspects that possess much less ability to defend themselves. The legal system has many flaws with uneven protections, but you can't fix that by sawing away at the protections to weaken them further.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 05:07:32 pm by Lord Shonus »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157690 on: July 01, 2021, 05:36:35 pm »

Our legal system, in its infinite wisdom, can only protect the innocent if it also protects the guilty.  And since more people are guilty of crimes than innocent, the guilty are the ones that routinely test the system.  Call it a dry run for when the innocent are being prosecuted.

Most case law in fact will take the WORST possible person and let them free, just to prove a point that this case applies all the time, not just when people want it to apply.

As for prosecutors, they start out thinking they'll be helping victims, only to find out that today's victim is sometimes tomorrow's defendant.  The roles of victim and defendant swap so often, I'm downright proud they're willing to stick it out anyways.

None of this is to say that Cosby did not get "special treatment".  He TOTALLY got special treatment.  How many defendants can make their rape case "go away" by spending millions of dollars?  That is NOT a solution available to most people.

None

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157691 on: July 01, 2021, 06:03:23 pm »

Protecting even that one innocent person is the reason I'm so vehemently against the death penalty, though. The legal system is for people with money.

Anywho, unrelated- apparently one egg contains 72% of your recommended daily intake of cholesterol.
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pisskop

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157692 on: July 01, 2021, 06:21:56 pm »

pesh, I eat 3 at breakfast, and always at least one.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157693 on: July 01, 2021, 06:30:32 pm »

When I was a lad I ate four dozen eggs
Every morning to help me get large

And now that I'm grown I eat five dozen eggs
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Bumber

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #157694 on: July 01, 2021, 07:15:25 pm »

Cosby's free, but they won't leave Brittany alone!

Can someone provide a statute or precedent that says a new prosecutor is obligated to abide by the (completely fucking ridiculous deal) made by previous prosecutor?

Does the precedent the PA Supreme Court just created count? :P
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