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[birdy51]

Eurgh. And literally EVERY fucking person I have talked to about it thinks it's ok. Which, it ultimately might, since they are raw and will be subjected to great amounts of heat anyways, but there is still no fucking way I would want to sell something like that in good conscience.

... I really need to find a better job.

[scriver]

Nah, it's not okay.

And literally everyone of those who say it is would refuse to eat that steak if it was theirs.

[birdy51]

Nah, it's not okay.

And literally everyone of those who say it is would refuse to eat that steak if it was theirs.

While I wish that were the case, I don't think that it is. One of the claims made during our conversation was 'my wife is a microbiologist' and the guy had been in the business for years. On most other things I respect him, so I am inclined to believe him that, yeah, 450 degrees will kill a lot of things. Hell, during the aging process of meats, we deliberately allow some materials to develop on the outer shell of a meat so that inside becomes more tender. In most respects, they're probably right in saying that shit won't hurt anyone, provided the meat is cooked as long as it needs to be.

That said. it's still morally reprehensible to try to sell a product that had been potentially contaminated without that customers pre-consent; which given that it was a pre-packed item, wasn't exactly an option. And even then, if it ended tasting even the most tiniest bit funny, I would feel awful. If only for that reason, I'm still 100% happy with what I did.

GRAH.

[Mephansteras]

It is also worth noting that people expect beef to be able to be cooked to much lower temperatures than most other meats, so steak especially is more risky than a lot of others if sold dirty. Some people even eat it raw!

So, no. Not OK.

[EnigmaticHat]

Nah, it's not okay.

And literally everyone of those who say it is would refuse to eat that steak if it was theirs.

While I wish that were the case, I don't think that it is. One of the claims made during our conversation was 'my wife is a microbiologist' and the guy had been in the business for years. On most other things I respect him, so I am inclined to believe him that, yeah, 450 degrees will kill a lot of things. Hell, during the aging process of meats, we deliberately allow some materials to develop on the outer shell of a meat so that inside becomes more tender. In most respects, they're probably right in saying that shit won't hurt anyone, provided the meat is cooked as long as it needs to be.

That said. it's still morally reprehensible to try to sell a product that had been potentially contaminated without that customers pre-consent; which given that it was a pre-packed item, wasn't exactly an option. And even then, if it ended tasting even the most tiniest bit funny, I would feel awful. If only for that reason, I'm still 100% happy with what I did.

GRAH.

Yo when you end up Kitchen Nightmares make a cryptic Dwarf Fortress reference so we know its you.

[JoshuaFH]

Nah, it's not okay.

And literally everyone of those who say it is would refuse to eat that steak if it was theirs.

While I wish that were the case, I don't think that it is. One of the claims made during our conversation was 'my wife is a microbiologist' and the guy had been in the business for years. On most other things I respect him, so I am inclined to believe him that, yeah, 450 degrees will kill a lot of things. Hell, during the aging process of meats, we deliberately allow some materials to develop on the outer shell of a meat so that inside becomes more tender. In most respects, they're probably right in saying that shit won't hurt anyone, provided the meat is cooked as long as it needs to be.

That said. it's still morally reprehensible to try to sell a product that had been potentially contaminated without that customers pre-consent; which given that it was a pre-packed item, wasn't exactly an option. And even then, if it ended tasting even the most tiniest bit funny, I would feel awful. If only for that reason, I'm still 100% happy with what I did.

GRAH.

Yo when you end up Kitchen Nightmares make a cryptic Dwarf Fortress reference so we know its you.

"This is a Mastercraft kitchen knife, it menaces with spikes of stainless steel."

[Frumple]

Nah, it's not okay.

And literally everyone of those who say it is would refuse to eat that steak if it was theirs.

You'd be surprised/horrified. I've had to intercept family that was going to cook/eat stuff that had been on the floor and had bugs crawling on it. Also have to regularly check to make sure food is put up after cooking/eating. They don't hesitate to leave stuff (that can make you sick/actually kill you if not promptly refrigerated or whatev') out for literal days, exposed to air, and still eat it.

How these people live for decades and not make the subsequent toilet inhabitation connection, I still don't understand. Senility only goes so far and doesn't excuse the ones younger than me.

[birdy51]

Unfortunately(fortunately?), I'm working in a straight-up meat department as opposed to kitchen. And Meph, that point is 100% valid, although I would deeply question why someone would want to eat meat raw (though I do know there are some recipes for it, and our fresh house-ground beef tends to be decent for that). 

That said? I think I'm going to make an inquiry to the FDA and see what they think. For all I know, there could be archaic shenanigans that somehow makes steak dropping ok (unlikely, but oh my god if it is), or sweet vindication(which would beg the question of how I even broach this sort of subject, but I'm thinking that since I've contacted the people in charge on my own levels, I would likely be best off going above their heads and to somebody who actually gives a shit.

As for eating that flies onto my floors, it's mostly fair game so long as it's raw or dried. Cracker? Piece of popcorn? Give me that shit. Crusty apple covered in what one can only hope is coffee grains? Dear god no.

[JoshuaFH]

-

[Hanslanda]

Unfortunately(fortunately?), I'm working in a straight-up meat department as opposed to kitchen. And Meph, that point is 100% valid, although I would deeply question why someone would want to eat meat raw (though I do know there are some recipes for it, and our fresh house-ground beef tends to be decent for that). 

That said? I think I'm going to make an inquiry to the FDA and see what they think. For all I know, there could be archaic shenanigans that somehow makes steak dropping ok (unlikely, but oh my god if it is), or sweet vindication(which would beg the question of how I even broach this sort of subject, but I'm thinking that since I've contacted the people in charge on my own levels, I would likely be best off going above their heads and to somebody who actually gives a shit.

As for eating that flies onto my floors, it's mostly fair game so long as it's raw or dried. Cracker? Piece of popcorn? Give me that shit. Crusty apple covered in what one can only hope is coffee grains? Dear god no.

I suspect the FDA will tell you that it's very not okay.

[Kagus]

I'm hardly one who follows the FDA diet... I've had dairy products that were open and a month past their marked expiration date, I will eat food regardless of whether or not some obnoxious fly has landed on it or not, and I have been known to leave leftovers sitting out (or at least unrefridgerated with some sort of lid over so it doesn't completely dry out) overnight to eat them in the morning.

That said, safety or no, there's a moral obligation here when you're serving meat that is presented as and expected to be clean.


It's like washing your hands after taking a piss. Under most circumstances, nobody is going to die or become mortally ill just because you shook their hand while having a couple dried droplets of urine on your skin. But there's a kind of social obligation to wash them off so that you can proffer a clean hand that nobody needs to think about.

[LordBaal]

I worked on McDonal's in my youth (I'm 31 btw), and we were told any piece of food raw or cooked, or things like burger boxes and wrap papers, that touched any surface not meant to be touched by them, at any time of the process, for any length of time was considered waste immediately. They rather face wasted materials than a lawsuit. Mind that the floors and all surface on the kitchen were keep insanely clean and still anything that fell down was thrown into the garbage with fury. And all this in a banana republic were a lot of laws are so lax they barely exists at all and if you have any issues they can be solved with some bribe. Don't imagine how they enforce all these rules on a place were laws are actually applied.

[birdy51]

We got guys who come over, look the place up and down and check of the old paperwork. Which is being a bit ingenuous, but we do have health inspectors. And aye. While I highly suspect the FDA won't approve, it's more that I want some sort of authority justifying my opinion. Especially since I got REALLY pissed, and none of the people who should have verified that anger did. It honestly wasn't wise, but the dude was fucking pissing me off all day anyways.

[MrRoboto75]

I worked on McDonal's in my youth (I'm 31 btw), and we were told any piece of food raw or cooked, or things like burger boxes and wrap papers, that touched any surface not meant to be touched by them, at any time of the process, for any length of time was considered waste immediately. They rather face wasted materials than a lawsuit. Mind that the floors and all surface on the kitchen were keep insanely clean and still anything that fell down was thrown into the garbage with fury. And all this in a banana republic were a lot of laws are so lax they barely exists at all and if you have any issues they can be solved with some bribe. Don't imagine how they enforce all these rules on a place were laws are actually applied.

Part of it is (at least from my experience working at Dominoes) is the fact that its a franchise.  If the restaurant isn't up to franchise standards you lose the franchise rights.  That includes cleanliness and overall appearance.

[pisskop]

yea no food is serious business; and proper high end restaurants/stores will not hesitate to throw out hundreds of dollars over a case of even potential or theoretical cross-contamination.  which touching the floor is.

Ive seen meat stacked, in its boxes, on top of produce, and the produce all flew away. hundreds of melons, just floating away.


That said, my current employers are a mix of 'throw away a hundred dollars a day or we get suspicious' and 'shit don't you dare use that 3bay sink. 2 are for the other department exclusively'.  assholes don't know what a 5 station sink is but will flip their lid over some slightly off-color food.


I'm a manager of a department, and it drives me crazy to not even control this basic thing...