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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14954230 times)

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117015 on: January 21, 2017, 07:27:34 pm »

I think this is true and not racist. Human beings only change when forced to do so by circumstance.

No circumstance, no change.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117016 on: January 21, 2017, 07:35:03 pm »

I almost think it's the opposite, though, and the reason for humans ever becoming civilized was living in biomes where agriculture became necessary.  Once that became necessary, then you had to invent all kinds of other technology to do things like keep that grown food from spoiling (like letting cats move in to control vermin since they also were entirely uninterested in your vegetable food), brewing alcohol, etc. 

Many of the "primitive" cultures that still exist do so in biomes where food is abundant and hunting and gathering entirely sufficient to preserve life. 

It's hard to talk about these specific issues without inadvertently coming across as racist somehow, and to be really clear, I don't think you did that.  I do think, though, that it's kind of the opposite, and people living in very food-rich biomes tend not to be farmers and so long as their culture succeeds doing this, it just isn't going to change.  This is why you have these really old cultures that never became "civilized" in the strictly modern sense.

(Nothing racist intended here, this isn't "better" or "worse," it's just something that is.)
A great example is ancient Babylon. In the middle of a fucking desert, with fuck all to do except herd sheep with your tribe bros. The ground fucking sucked for farming, prone to becoming salty, hard, cracked and dry with poor rainfall - thus they invented the plow. Good job Bablyonians. They turned their wasteland into Babylon, a name synonymous with fields of green and gold, the fertile crescent, the birthplace of civilization, despite having no minerals, forests or even stone for building their civilization. They did it anyways in spite of their dire situation, or perhaps, because of it, needing to go the extra mile to make up for their fucked up world that kept trying to fuck them over.

Another example is the Yellow river. Complete opposition of Babylon, where instead of a lack of water, there was too much water. The Yellow river had no defined banks, as it continually deposited silt and overran its own river banks, causing massive flooding that destroyed human attempts at forming civilization. One local King gets the bright idea to force all of his men to build dykes to contain the river, but after years of forced labour his efforts are in vain and flooding continues anyways. His son studies the river and finds out the river is depositing silt, and so will eventually overrun all of their dykes. Thus he forms irrigation canals to dredge the river instead of trying to contain it - this effort forms the basis of what becomes the Chinese civilization, with generation after generation concerned with authoritarian rule, bureaucracy and management of serfs to contain the river and stop it from destroying civilization, instead feeding it

muldrake

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117017 on: January 21, 2017, 08:30:44 pm »

Another example is the Yellow river. Complete opposition of Babylon, where instead of a lack of water, there was too much water. The Yellow river had no defined banks, as it continually deposited silt and overran its own river banks, causing massive flooding that destroyed human attempts at forming civilization. One local King gets the bright idea to force all of his men to build dykes to contain the river, but after years of forced labour his efforts are in vain and flooding continues anyways. His son studies the river and finds out the river is depositing silt, and so will eventually overrun all of their dykes. Thus he forms irrigation canals to dredge the river instead of trying to contain it - this effort forms the basis of what becomes the Chinese civilization, with generation after generation concerned with authoritarian rule, bureaucracy and management of serfs to contain the river and stop it from destroying civilization, instead feeding it

The result is rice agriculture, which requires vast cooperative effort to make work.

There's actually a theory that fundamental philosophical difference between civilizations are essentially separated by whether rice or wheat agriculture is the basis of the society.  Specifically, the Yangtze in China separates wheat and rice cultivation, and the cultures on either side are markedly different.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117018 on: January 21, 2017, 08:42:15 pm »

A great example is ancient Babylon. (...) prone to becoming salty

War. War never changes.
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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117019 on: January 21, 2017, 09:12:45 pm »

The result is rice agriculture, which requires vast cooperative effort to make work.
There's actually a theory that fundamental philosophical difference between civilizations are essentially separated by whether rice or wheat agriculture is the basis of the society.  Specifically, the Yangtze in China separates wheat and rice cultivation, and the cultures on either side are markedly different.
Nah, I think it has much more to do with how peoples are ruled, and how rulers must rule in accordance with the resources and challenges they have. Crops are a part of that but aren't the whole, the Chinese civilization for example made great innovations in bureaucracy, capable of organizing millions of workers to tame their angry river, which in turn defined so much of what would become Chinese culture even into the modern world. The great bureaucracy, the authoritarian governments needed to boss peasants, the massive secret police force needed to quell dissent, the armed forces used to maintain stability, the notion that if the leader failed to contain the river they lost heaven's mandate and needed to be replaced by someone who could tame the river etc.
Especially when civilizations move beyond having most of their peeps employed in agriculture, which was the case for much of the Chinese civilization's history

They invented the freaking wheelbarrow
That's insane

Agriculture is important to shaping culture, but it's not the most important factor I reckon. I only give exception to some really game changing crops like sugar

A great example is ancient Babylon. (...) prone to becoming salty
War. War never changes.
1v1 me Cyrus the great, more like Cryus the scrub

muldrake

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117020 on: January 21, 2017, 09:26:50 pm »

Agriculture is important to shaping culture, but it's not the most important factor I reckon. I only give exception to some really game changing crops like sugar

I more or less agree with this, which is why I generally cite things like that rice/wheat theory with a bit of implied skepticism.  Theories like that sound great on their surface, but usually vastly over-simplify the complex realities of human life.  Jared Diamond's stuff also hits me the same way. Yeah, it sounds good in a "sounding like a genius" kind of way, but it's mostly just bullshit.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalěs

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117021 on: January 21, 2017, 09:56:00 pm »

...ah, so that's how I found HPMoR. Funny how that works.

Anyway, HPMoR's a rather good book so far. I haven't gotten to the Troll Incident, but I've read about 3/4rs of it. Whoever said that the Troll Incident was halfway through the "first book" doesn't understand how this fanfic works. It covers the first year only. It is divided into several books. The Troll Incident is not in the first book.
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Sirus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117022 on: January 21, 2017, 10:22:01 pm »

That would be me. And silly me I guess :P
I kinda figured that it would cover the entire series for some reason.
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Parsely

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117023 on: January 21, 2017, 11:46:49 pm »

I thought I loved spinach, but I had some creamed spinach at work today and really disliked it. I just kept taking bites because I couldn't believe it.

"Maybe this time...? Y- No it still sucks."

I couldn't even manage to enjoy my mashed potatoes after trying them. Checked and I still hate sauerkraut though so at least my world hasn't been turned completely upside down.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117024 on: January 21, 2017, 11:49:51 pm »

Ended up playing Stardew valley and while really good a lot of me feels like it is only part of a good game, well of its type.

For example characters often have two maybe three states (as opposed to modern Harvest Moon 10 states) and they don't really banter the way they often should... It is rare anyone hints at their likes or dislikes (or that of another character).

The new "Farm Types" is probably the least well thought out addition since, and it might shock you, the normal farm is better EVEN IF you like the other activities because of how important the real-estate is and how the other farms sort of impede your movement.

The combat is interesting... In that it is more fun being overpowered and dealing with your HP as a resource... Then it is to be "at the expected level" (to say nothing about how the leveling for combat is broken)... and the only way enemies challenge the player is typically to be a wall of HP.

Not to mention the Leveling system is WEIRD in that it is between being very disappointing and awesome at the same time. "Yeah my ultimate reward is! slightly... more... money... SOMEHOW"... In fact I SWEAR the game was made for you to look on the internet because some of the decent rewards are hidden behind cruddy ones. It is kind of funny that some of the rewards are far less impressive then the craftables you unlock.
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overseer05-15

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117025 on: January 22, 2017, 12:06:39 am »

I always thought it was pretty normal for crafted stuff be better than drops.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117026 on: January 22, 2017, 12:17:10 am »

I always thought it was pretty normal for crafted stuff be better than drops.

Yeah but imagine a game where leveling up guns makes you better with the pistol... But at level 6 you get a super machine gun that completely invalidates the pistol... and yet level 7-10 still improves the pistol... which is kind of pointless now.
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Rolan7

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117027 on: January 22, 2017, 12:49:34 am »

I thought I loved spinach, but I had some creamed spinach at work today and really disliked it. I just kept taking bites because I couldn't believe it.

"Maybe this time...? Y- No it still sucks."

I couldn't even manage to enjoy my mashed potatoes after trying them. Checked and I still hate sauerkraut though so at least my world hasn't been turned completely upside down.
Creamed spinach can be really rich.  I like it a lot better as raw leaves.  So much better than iceberg lettuce in a salad, but it's honestly alright on its own too.

And yet I hate raw broccoli (love it boiled, even without cheese).
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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117028 on: January 22, 2017, 02:43:11 am »

I always thought it was pretty normal for crafted stuff be better than drops.
I thought that it was the opposite - crafting can be simply automated, while getting drops is usually far more involved of a process.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #117029 on: January 22, 2017, 02:49:55 am »

UGH! I got into From the Depths as a really fun multiplayer open sandbox-esk game where you make ships that blow eachother up! in an awesome display...

AND as a bonus it doesn't take years to make a single ship the side of a tug like OTHER games... *cough cough* Space Engineers *cough cough*... NOR are you placing things block by block by hand like a LOT of other ones *cough cough* Name one that isn't *cough cough*.

So all was right with the world, even got my brother to buy into it and I stopped playing waiting for a few updates so I can play it with my brother (and a few games) fresh.

But I go onto the forums and the developer is thinking of making the game single player only...

>_<

Dang it the only game I can use to put down Space Engineers (a game that honestly needs to be slapped in the face, and one I bet in a few years will be considered a terrible game) and soon I won't be able to.
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