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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14849928 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114255 on: November 26, 2016, 01:36:01 am »

@MSH: I definitely agree with you that the left should police itself to keep SJW ideology from spreading. However, I have a question: how do you think that should be done? If anyone else would like to answer, I'd also appreciate it 'cause it's honestly something I haven't considered until now. I don't think there's much precedent for extremism being quelled quickly, or for groups policing themselves (except in the cases where the extremist faction starts policing the rest of the group).
Perhaps "police" is the wrong word, especially considering how I feel about the police.

Regardless, the best thing is to be as awesome as you can be and not stand for bullshit. I believe strongly in that one quote: "You begin saving the world by saving one person at a time; all else is grandiose romanticism or politics." I've nearly taken to describing myself as "anti-political" in opposition to the infectious madness that rigorous political focus brings out in people.

It's also a question of efficacy. South Africa legalized same-sex marriage through court fiat in spite of massive public opinion against it, and surprise, there's still massive amounts of anti-LGBT violence in that region (apologies to Arx). Not that they shouldn't have ruled that way, but common beliefs are from what all else stems. Unfortunately, the tendency is towards politics because that's comparatively easy.

I've gotten flack for this before, but I think a good guideline is pretending you're the hero. Of the Superman-esq variety. I've found that a large number of bad behaviors are ultimately based in trying to "dial down and be realistic" by turning yourself into an edgy jackoff. The irony is that it's totally an offshoot of machismo, which in the SJW political context is being engaged in by the kind of people who usually think that machismo is a Terrible Thing. "Do what you have to do." "The only justice is what you take with your own hands." "They'll never respect us unless we force them to." I should start a Edgy Comic Book or Edgy Politics game, now that I'm thinking about it. Taking universalism and humanism as the ideal state of the world and the uniting focus of the political sphere makes it harder to go astray.

Another problem is that a lot of arguments used by SJW-types are taken from the echelons of high academia. Unlike some, I don't think the bullshit of academic theorists is solvable, and for them it also isn't as much of an issue because they're basically off in a totally different world when talking about these kinds of things. The real problem are the sophomores and laymen absorbing all of this stuff bereft of context. It sounds crazy (because it kind of is), but when some postdoc says some shit like "All white people should kill themselves" they really are in a radically different context than everybody who absorbs that phrase second or third-hand.

There's a Realm of Ideas quality to these environments where entire arguments become almost like artistic statements that are meant to provoke and convey other elements through the speaker's past works and general context, and more importantly where the presence of all humanity is ignored in order to attain lighting pace argumentation and conveyance among other people on that level without constantly circling the drain on arguments everybody has heard a bajillion times and can be predicted ten steps ahead because of it.

However, then it gets popular among people who don't get a Masters or Doctorate in Philosophy, or who don't know a damn thing about all of this and are just pissed the hell off, and what they are seeing is respected and obviously intelligent figures saying that whites deserve whatever they get for their collective racial crimes. Thus cometh idiotic Facebook posts and a reinforcing hatred, and that's just a single example of all sorts of malformed ideas that leak into the (sigh) memeplex. Not only that, but because some of these args are disseminated verbatim from the original speaker they actually tend to be really smart and filled with logic traps, so it's hard for most people to argue against them and they end up attracted to the durability of the argument.

We need to break down the Ivory Tower or at least make it the Ivory Highway, is what I'm saying here.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 01:44:11 am by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114256 on: November 26, 2016, 01:39:59 am »

I really hate it when someone calls for someone to "Police themselves". It is typically a way for someone to put the blame on a group for individual's actions.

Basically it is covertly prejudice prettied up so it doesn't SEEM offensive...

Just switch up the words and watch: "There are a lot of crimes being committed by Black people. Perhaps the Black community should police themselves"

It isn't a group's job to ensure that every single member of that group is a like minded individual and to invade their business. As well we KNOW that groups are notoriously terrible at policing themselves when it is their job! (see the police for example. There is a reason why we have internal affairs)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 01:42:01 am by Neonivek »
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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114257 on: November 26, 2016, 01:45:56 am »

Wait, what the fuck? MSH, do academicians actually say "all white people should kill themselves"? Because I've been through the equivalent of a year or two of college, and I've never heard anything that seems... SJW-ish.

Of course, that was GE, so it could be that I'd need to major in Fem-studies or such... but I still find that unlikely.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114258 on: November 26, 2016, 02:04:33 am »

I recall smeeprocket said something in leu of "we should just go outside and start shooting white people." One of the few posts I've ever reported.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114259 on: November 26, 2016, 02:14:34 am »

Wait, what the fuck? MSH, do academicians actually say "all white people should kill themselves"? Because I've been through the equivalent of a year or two of college, and I've never heard anything that seems... SJW-ish.

Of course, that was GE, so it could be that I'd need to major in Fem-studies or such... but I still find that unlikely.
It's just an example of the process. I did see somebody say that verbatim though, but I forget what their role was. They had a big enough twitter that it blew up immediately, I remember that much.

A more typical example would be the badly truncated thesis statement of critical race theory's view on structural racism, that being the oft-heard "Racism is Prejudice plus Power, therefore only black and brown bodies experience racism because they have no power." A short list of what this ignores when it is repeated by the average Facebook poster:

1. The original context is about structural racism. As in, the kind perpetuated by structures, and not people. That would be interpersonal racism.

2. This version is immensely generalizing and says that, for example, if a black cop with a hate-on beats up a redneck, that doesn't count because it's not common.

3. That any individual person with power over the structure, like say a cop or a politician, can turn it to inflict on whomever they want.

4. That it relies on accepting specific definitions of racism, prejudice, and power that all have their own assorted arguments first.

5. That it also relies on the legitimacy of Critical Race Theory, which is ultimately just an idea like any other and could be wrong.

6. That the originator is sometimes just trying to make a point about something like "racism is over because blacks can vote" rather than advocating the idea as a universal principle.

7. That the originator, being an academic, is probably able to see and account for holes in the argument instead of doing stupid shit like saying "So if a black person beats up a white person for going into their neighborhood, that's only prejudice not racism, but the reverse is oppression and the government needs to make it stop."

8. That the power derived from the state is not in the hands of a monolithic entity, but a dynamic and ever-shifting group of people with a variety of motivations and applications when making use of their monopoly of violence, thus making the idea that black people have zero power kind of difficult to justify.

Etcetera, etcetera...

A good example of how easy it is to misunderstand can be found in the philosophical divide of Natalism vs. Antinatalism. In short, natalists think making more babies is either good or at least not a problem, while antinatalists think creating new humans is a problem or actually even evil.

Now, do natalists by and large think we should abuse our utility function and have as many babies as possible, ban contraception, and drown in the morass of humanity even if it kills us? Or do antinatalists think we should sterilize people whenever we can or stop having children and go extinct? Well, some do. Just like there's probably some idiot professor out there who thinks genocide is a form of restorative justice. But by and large they're just trying to understand a specific moral dimension of the world, and going so far into it amongst others who do the same can lead to some very, very strange and extreme-sounding conclusions.

If you look at the philosophy-based forums on ugh... *vomits slightly in mouth* reddit, it won't take long before you see a sentiment along the lines of "educated philosophers appreciate the interest of autodidacts, but don't want to talk to them because they never have anything meaningful to say". This is basically why.

So yes, that does mean that college philosophy departments are the meatspace equivalent of containment boards.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 02:21:48 am by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Yoink

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114260 on: November 26, 2016, 02:45:13 am »

WhyTF is there so much politics in the WTF thread? F off back to -pol you Bs! >:(
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114261 on: November 26, 2016, 03:01:07 am »

WhyTF is there so much politics in the WTF thread? F off back to -pol you Bs! >:(

The pol kicks people who discuss that out :P
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Yoink

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114262 on: November 26, 2016, 03:13:20 am »

Well then, don't discuss it?
The emotion threads certainly aren't the place for it. If whatever tangent is really so important to you, then start a specific thread for it and see if the Toad minds or not.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114263 on: November 26, 2016, 03:18:59 am »

Sorry Yoink, but AmeriPol is now strictly dedicated to discussions of quantum immortality timelines and Jill Stein's optics relationship to the DNC. WTF is now the political discussion thread. Please take your off-topic WTF posts to DPRK Thread, which is now the new WTF thread.
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Insanegame27

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114264 on: November 26, 2016, 03:44:04 am »

So Interpol broke Pinterest.


InterpolxPinterest = InterPin. Still a better love story than Twilight.
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pisskop

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114265 on: November 26, 2016, 05:21:40 am »

I feel happy knowing that my tone can sound one way or the other now  :o
Although I get your point. Pretty much with experience? Or how I write stuff in a certain way? :P
I guess we're used to people like Dice or unicornone
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I don't know who you're talking about here. :-[
It took you an hour to decide you didnt see the context?

Well, I imply that many peopld who are as thoughtful, somewhat detatched, and indepth as you -here- are male.  At least I think theyre okay being called so.  So thus, its fairly easy to make the assumption that like begets like, and 13:1 ratios and jazz.

Not sure theres much to get.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 05:23:38 am by pisskop »
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Shadowlord

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114266 on: November 26, 2016, 05:40:14 am »

I feel happy knowing that my tone can sound one way or the other now  :o
Although I get your point. Pretty much with experience? Or how I write stuff in a certain way? :P
I guess we're used to people like Dice or unicornone
Flying Dice is nice!
I don't know who you're talking about here. :-[
It took you an hour to decide you didnt see the context?

Well, I imply that many peopld who are as thoughtful, somewhat detatched, and indepth as you -here- are male.  At least I think theyre okay being called so.  So thus, its fairly easy to make the assumption that like begets like, and 13:1 ratios and jazz.

Not sure theres much to get.

I don't know.
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pisskop

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114267 on: November 26, 2016, 05:43:17 am »

I think Flying Dice had a static unicron/MLP avatar at one point, and I suspect I was referring to the same person. :oops:


But I mean its a quick insight into stereotyping, I feel.  Gender isnt a quickly displayed thing here, and its a friendly reminder that its easy to do.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114268 on: November 26, 2016, 05:48:47 am »

I think Flying Dice had a static unicron/MLP avatar at one point, and I suspect I was referring to the same person. :oops:


But I mean its a quick insight into stereotyping, I feel.  Gender isnt a quickly displayed thing here, and its a friendly reminder that its easy to do.

There is a gender field on profiles, but it only has two choices, unless you leave it blank. Also you have to look at people's profiles to see it, which is somewhat inconvenient. (I haven't, but I left mine blank so it just didn't occur to me to do so)
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Sergarr

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #114269 on: November 26, 2016, 05:53:32 am »

I have a double WTF:
1) There are still people playing UT99. On the same server as it was a few years ago, to boot!
2) It's still fun as hell to play UT99.
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