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[Teneb]

But Neo, are you not interested in buying my All-Natural Snake Oil?

[TempAcc]

Straight from the snake, too.

[Shadowlord]

Right, so you mean you have a problem with the wording of such ads, not what they actually mean, then?
That makes more sense. I thought you were being an IRL dorf and calling for as much environmental devastation as possible.

Five out of five dentists agree that this toothpaste is the best ever
Five out of five dentists also agree that this other toothpaste is the best ever

What they mean is "advertisements are always lies," I think.

[Frumple]

Remember folks: When confronting the reasonableness of the naturalistic fallacy and the proposition that natural == good, click your heels together three times and think of bedbugs. Then set whoever's trying to make the connection on fire, with a hearty rejoinder as to the pure natural essence of hominid combustion. Their screams are in fact screams of happiness and joy at your flaming largess, not anything like agonizing pain.just in case it wasn't obvious don't actually set anyone on fire, especially not for reasons noted above

[pisskop]

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[Shadowlord]

Frumple:
Well, it could get worse? I mean, 'this might cause cancer if you eat it for 30 years straight' is one thing, but I can imagine so much worse:

"Buy my Genuine 100% Natural & Organic Poison Ivy T. Radicans Massage Oil and Lube!"

Also the real shit like colloidal silver, and historical real shit like putting radiation in everything because it's new and sciency so it must be good for you

[Yoink]

No... I have an issue with what they mean. They use "Natural" to incite an idea in your head when in fact it is ENTIRELY meaningless.

"This medicine is all natural"

What does this tell the consumer?: This medicine is perfectly safe

What it actually means?: Nothing... on every level.

I don't really understand what you're on about, but I shall try to respond to this anyway. Wish me luck.

No, it doesn't "tell the consumer" that at all. It merely tells them that the product does not contain artificial ingredients, for the benefit of those who wish to avoid them. I don't really see how that counts as a devious lie?

[Neonivek]

Ok, let me ask you.

Why would someone want to avoid artificial ingredients? AND by what measure is this "all natural product" not artificial and this "artificial product" not natural?

Or I'll answer it anyway...

There is no reason. They are playing up the perceived benefits of a "All natural" product even though there IS NONE. As well there is no measure for "All natural" so it is double dishonest.

So if there is no benefit to a natural product and if the level of "natural" cannot be measured... Why say it?

Something is dishonest when it is attempting to make you think something that is factually untrue.

---

This is why I have little issue with "All American Beer"... Because it is a self-fulfilling advertisement. If you buy into it, it is true.

[Yoink]

Uh, no. But whatever.
This argument is the kind that generally goes nowhere, judging from past experience, so I won't bother with it.

[Neonivek]

Uh, no. But whatever.
This argument is the kind that generally goes nowhere, judging from past experience, so I won't bother with it.

Ok let me see what you are saying here

"Why would someone want to avoid artificial ingredients": No
"What measure is blah blah not natural?": No
"Why say it?": No

Yeah I see why this argument goes nowhere

[Dozebôm Lolumzalės]

What do you mean?
Do you prefer to buy products that are as harmful to the environment as possible?

Yoink, it would appear that you do not understand the naturalistic fallacy.

We shouldn't do X because it would harm the environment.

X is good because it occurs naturally; i.e., it is not synthetic or artificial.

[EnigmaticHat]

Ok, let me ask you.

Why would someone want to avoid artificial ingredients? AND by what measure is this "all natural product" not artificial and this "artificial product" not natural?

Or I'll answer it anyway...

There is no reason. They are playing up the perceived benefits of a "All natural" product even though there IS NONE. As well there is no measure for "All natural" so it is double dishonest.

So if there is no benefit to a natural product and if the level of "natural" cannot be measured... Why say it?

Something is dishonest when it is attempting to make you think something that is factually untrue.

---

This is why I have little issue with "All American Beer"... Because it is a self-fulfilling advertisement. If you buy into it, it is true.

My answer is that artificial ingredients are new.  Food research, unreliable as it is, constantly turns up new shit that artificial ingredients does.  Sometimes its even right.  Remember, we live in a world where the preservatives in bacon supposedly cause cancer.

Whereas we've been eating, I want to say... bananas?... since the dawn of time.  If bananas cut our lifespan down to 60 at best, we would know by now.

[Neonivek]

My answer is that artificial ingredients are new

Are you SUUURE about that?

[Dozebôm Lolumzalės]

EAT THE GEL, IT'S FINE FOR YOU

IT'S JUST A BIT EXPERIMENTAL

DID YOU NEED THAT ORGAN?

[Shadowlord]

Except 'natural' products can still be produced using artificial ones, like, say, bleach, or pesticides.

Or, on a more personal basis:

Lactose is natural. Feels like hell* if I eat something that contains much of it. Feels like heck if I eat something that contains a little of it.

* Imagine, if you will, intense "oh god I'm dying"-level stomach pain that lasts a couple seconds, goes away for a couple seconds, comes back, goes away, etc, plus gas, and then eventually lots of diarrhea, after which it stops feeling (as much) like you're going to die. As far as I know, it cannot actually cause death, it's just very painful and unpleasant.

_{There's also a naturally occurring chemical that most people have no problem processing, which is in a variety of foods naturally, and is listed on no labels and has no warnings for it, but which causes my throat to swell up if I ingest even a minuscule amount of it. Oh, and it's also added to some products or ends up in them due to how they're prepared.}