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[Shadowlord]

Further, as much as it's rather galling to see him cosy up to a threat to European stability, he hasn't made a to western Europe that he is now breaking.

You're right, he hasn't. But as President, he'll represent the USA, which did make the commitment in NATO's Article 5.

[Frumple]

Sure, but you seem to be thinking trump can be trusted to follow up on a contractual promise, or anything like one. Considering the amount of lawsuits he's ate specifically because he didn't do that, uh...

[Sergarr]

Further, as much as it's rather galling to see him cosy up to a threat to European stability, he hasn't made a to western Europe that he is now breaking.

You're right, he hasn't. But as President, he'll represent the USA, which did make the commitment in NATO's Article 5.

It's pretty easy to weasel out of any military action to assist the attacked country in NATO, because Article 5 actually doesn't mandate any:

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

See this "including the use of armed force" bit?

[martinuzz]

I can't fathom military advisors and think tanks agreeing with any proposal to withdraw from NATO. I really can't see that happenening. Reduced funding, and harder negotiations with the EU to make them spend more, likely, but getting out of NATO altogether? I just can't see that really happening.

[Flying Dice]

It wouldn't make him any friends. Military adventurism interventionism is a cornerstone of neocon foreign policy -- they're not as strong as they were when they owned the White House under Dubya, but they're still there. And if he goes beyond NATO and tries to cut aid to Israel, AIPAC'll ensure that Dem challengers' campaigns get all the shekels come 2018 and 2020.

And good fuckin' gods, never thought I'd ever be thankful for the neocons or the Israel lobby sticking their respective grubby hands into our foreign policy, but reneging on our NATO obligations would be monumentally stupid.

[Rolepgeek]

And good fuckin' gods, never thought I'd ever be thankful for the neocons or the Israel lobby sticking their respective grubby hands into our foreign policy, but reneging on our NATO obligations would be monumentally stupid.

It's all about moderation An extreme either way tends to be bad, so when you have one extreme threatening, you tend to be grateful for the other.

[Frumple]

... uh, no, this isn't one extreme against another. It's two different sorts of the same type just happening to cancel each other out... maybe.

[Yoink]

Wow, interesting discussion of cashiers/checkouts I unintentionally spawned back there.
I'd respond to it all more probably, but well... I'm pretty tired from a long, hot day of sorta-working and there's a lot of responding to do.

[Comrade P.]

I would like to (again) advise against discussing politics in WTF thread. I get it, they're WTF material lately and cause a wide range of emotions in people, but PLEASE keep the politics in designated threads.

[Rose]

Apparently somebody stole my fuse???

[hops]

I would like to (again) advise against discussing politics in WTF thread. I get it, they're WTF material lately and cause a wide range of emotions in people, but PLEASE keep the politics in designated threads.

Threads like, say, Ameripol.

Oh wait.

[Egan_BW]

What's that "oh wait" about? It's not still locked.

[hops]

Let's just say if Ameripol was a location, Toady One would be crouched enarby with a ban rifle.

[ein]

what was capcom thinking when they made the dunes area

the camera was already the worst thing about monster hunter and the first zone is just a giant fucking sand dune that gets in the way of trying to see fucking anything

4th gen in general just has the weakest maps imo

[Comrade P.]

Let's just say if Ameripol was a location, Toady One would be crouched enarby with a ban rifle.

Moderation is in place for a reason, you know. Don't want a ban, keep it civil. That's been established for a long time.