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[Flying Dice]

TBH zoos should include in ticket sales/entry an acceptance that violating safety measures doesn't impose any liability on the zoo or staff for injuries/disease/death. If someone wants to be a moron and stick their hand into enclosures, let their child climb barriers, let them deal with the consequences. Zoos should only be held responsible when there is no component of visitor guilt in the incident. Someone taunts big cats by shouting and throwing stuff, and it turns out that the moat wasn't quite wide enough to deter an annoyed tiger? Not the zoo's fault.

Same deal as safaris. If you do dumb shit and break the rules, it's on you.

[SOLDIER First]

haha yeah but why is your infant son able to fall into a gorilla enclosure in the first place
if he was killed (or even if nothing happened, i dunno) that's criminal negligence

[Criptfeind]

TBH zoos should include in ticket sales/entry an acceptance that violating safety measures doesn't impose any liability on the zoo or staff for injuries/disease/death. If someone wants to be a moron and stick their hand into enclosures, let their child climb barriers, let them deal with the consequences. Zoos should only be held responsible when there is no component of visitor guilt in the incident. Someone taunts big cats by shouting and throwing stuff, and it turns out that the moat wasn't quite wide enough to deter an annoyed tiger? Not the zoo's fault.

Same deal as safaris. If you do dumb shit and break the rules, it's on you.

This wouldn't solve the issue of course, the zoo didn't get sued for letting a child die, they choose to kill a animal over letting a child die. Unless you think the zoo made this choice purely from a liability standpoint and not because they made a moral choice.

[hector13]

haha yeah but why is your infant son able to fall into a gorilla enclosure in the first place
if he was killed (or even if nothing happened, i dunno) that's criminal negligence

Why you not paying attention to your infant son (or fuck it, any child) in a public space?

[Frumple]

... haven't we already done this? Pretty sure this conversation happened closer to the actual event.

[TempAcc]

And its not like you can just write this off as some sort of contractual obligation. There's no court I know of that would even allow that kind of contract to be enforceable.

The thing is, a goddamn child managed to just jump into his enclosure. Thats not exactly the safest enclosure ever IMHO, for both the animal and the atendees.

[Putnam]

haha yeah but why is your infant son able to fall into a gorilla enclosure in the first place
if he was killed (or even if nothing happened, i dunno) that's criminal negligence

Why you not paying attention to your infant son (or fuck it, any child) in a public space?

You'd be incredibly surprised at how fast children are.

[Criptfeind]

I feel like people who are totally blown away that a child could get away from an adult in a busy area like a zoo have never interacted with a child in zoo... Or anywhere.

It was probably negligent on the parents part.
It was probably negligent on the zoos part.

Sometimes smugly blaming people for things that happen and implying you think a child deserved to die because of it's own actions or the actions of others isn't actually that helpful or clever.

[Yoink]

I was specifically responding to:

And before someone goes, "nur nur nur but if da animals wasn't in da zoo dey would be dead," no, that's what nature reserves and the like are for.

Some animals would indeed be dead if they were not in monitored captivity, whether from injury, disease, or (in the cases of animals raised entirely in captivity and not specially raised for eventual release) their own simple ignorance of the natural world.

*sigh* When I said "and the like" that includes all those varied kinds of charitable, non-zoo animal sanctuaries and shelters that exist.
There aren't too many around here unless you count dog/cat shelters, so forgive me if I can't list off every possible variety by name.
Whatever the case, there's no actual need for zoos. They're something that should be phased out.   

So in other words, it's not a simple issue and giving your opposition a dumb accent doesn't change that.

...Most of y'all are already American, I don't need to.

... haven't we already done this? Pretty sure this conversation happened closer to the actual event.

I blame TempAcc. I'm pretty sure there have been extensive discussions on the matter before, but I couldn't let such a horrifying view on the matter go unopposed. Sorry for unintentionally re-opening this stale can of worms. >.>

[Criptfeind]

*sigh* When I said "and the like" that includes all those varied kinds of charitable, non-zoo animal sanctuaries and shelters that exist.

So basically you mean zoos that don't let people in to see the animals?

[Yoink]

Generally they have more of a focus on rehabilitation and release, rather than just keeping critters indefinitely.
Obviously, though, if a creature is truly unsuited to life in the wild, from what I've read/seen they aren't about to just throw 'em out there anyway.

[Silverthrone]

... haven't we already done this? Pretty sure this conversation happened closer to the actual event.

I believe it's my fault. I was whinging about the whole meme-thing a few pages back. In brief; good call, very unfortunate, I couldn't quite make out what level of dunder-headed irony the thing's gotten to and had a bit of a moan about it.

[hector13]

I feel like people who are totally blown away that a child could get away from an adult in a busy area like a zoo have never interacted with a child in zoo... Or anywhere.

It was probably negligent on the parents part.
It was probably negligent on the zoos part.

Sometimes smugly blaming people for things that happen and implying you think a child deserved to die because of it's own actions or the actions of others isn't actually that helpful or clever.

A child fell into a wild animal's enclosure in a zoo. I think it goes without saying that someone fucked up. A mix of the zoo and the parent, as you say. However, as all the other adults that were responsible for a child managed to avoid having them fall into said enclosure, one might suggest this particular adult was particularly foolish.

Did the animal deserve to be killed because it had the potential to kill the child? Probably not. The first thing the zoo did was to kill the animal, though. A bit unfair that someone else's fuck up results in that.

Also, unless you're referring to Yoink, I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, maaan.

[Criptfeind]

Also, unless you're referring to Yoink, I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, maaan.

I wasn't specifically referring to anyone in this conversation exactly, that post was more aimed at the previous conversation that happened on bay12 directly after the events then this conversation. Edit: Unless you are, as I mentioned, "blown away" that such a thing could happen. In which case yes that part of the post is specifically aimed at you as well as everyone else who would describe themselves as such, that's up to you if you think that applies to you though.

Did the animal deserve to be killed because it had the potential to kill the child? Probably not. The first thing the zoo did was to kill the animal, though. A bit unfair that someone else's fuck up results in that.

Obviously no one deserves to die, and life is unfair. But the choice was made between the kid and the animal. If the animal killed the kid, it wouldn't have been a fair or deserved death for him ether.

[Silverthrone]

The ape certainly didn't deserve to be shot because of it, no, but I don't think that was part of it. The problem was getting young Mr. Dumpty out of there relatively safe and sound, and fetching the rifle was the solution with the best prognosis. Rather unfair (at least for the ape), but it was a big misfortunate accident (along with a good helping of negligence). I doubt it could've been handled particularly fairly.