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[Orange Wizard]

Well thanks for the insulting defense? Tooth fairies have no basis in reality, my skepticism does.

That's what a tooth fairy believer would say!

Careful there. Just because someone, say, believe tooth fairies exist, doesn't mean they're automatically wrong about everything.

I dunno, I just thought is was a funny juxtaposition to have a guy say that Earth is not warming up, but heat is totally survivable, and cold will doom everyone.

[NJW2000]

There's a reason every great empire arose during a warm period, and similarly many end up falling during cold periods.

Like... say, the British Empire, the largest on earth in remembered history, which started in a wet and cold rain-filled little bog of an island, during the "little Ice Age" period, and collapsed during the 20th century, one of the hottest periods in a thousand years.




Or try the Spanish Empire, fourth largest, which happened around the warm medieval period and ended at the same temperature as it began.

Or the mongol empire, second, which also failed to start during the warm medieval period, instead arising in a middle-ish time heat-wise a century or two later, and falling while the earth was at the same temperature.

They may not be every great empire on earth, but they're the three largest, discounting Russia because that's cheating. Oh wait, Russia's also sodding cold. Did any significant empire start during the Medieval warm period?

Admittedly, I got my information from wikipedia.

[scriver]

There is a debt collector calling to harass one of my coworkers repeatedly. Today I told him not to call this number again, that its a business line and not intended to be used to harass employees on the job. After he hung up, he called again, and I answered again. This time he wanted to know if I'm the manager, and to talk to the manager. Who had already gone home.

Apparently you have to be the manager to remind people not to be a dumbass.
I'm so scared. He might tell the manager I mentioned he's misusing our customer service line to harass employees!

Another wtf; how the hell this guy learned that coworker is employed here and thus what number to call. Said coworker doesn't know either. Apparently debt collectors got connections with the mafia now.

My guess would be that debt collectors are (some of) the people who buy all that data that websites gather and then quietly sell.

While probably true, it is also more likely that they looked at the guy's Facebook profile or whatever and saw it there. Or git the information from whomever they bought the debt from (work/pay conditions is a thing you probably have to declare when taking a loan, right?).

[Orange Wizard]

That's a really tiny graph

Biggest arguments in favour of, like, warmness making empire, would mostly be the Mediterranean and Middle-east, which has been the origin of Persian, Greek, Roman, and various Islamic empires. No clue how that correlates to actual temperature changes, although at a glance it looks like those all collapsed as temperatures rose.

Frankly I think it's a horseshit argument and any correlation is entirely incidental. Climate stability is what you're looking for, largely regardless of temperature.

[Max™]

Well thanks for the insulting defense? Tooth fairies have no basis in reality, my skepticism does.

That's what a tooth fairy believer would say!

Perhaps, but I try to avoid beliefs: holding something to be true, whether there is evidence or not. You believe certain things, I doubt certain things, most things which I can't directly prove mathematically or logically actually.

Careful there. Just because someone, say, believe tooth fairies exist, doesn't mean they're automatically wrong about everything.

I dunno, I just thought is was a funny juxtaposition to have a guy say that Earth is not warming up, but heat is totally survivable, and cold will doom everyone.

I never said it hasn't warmed since the 16th~17th century lows.

Incidentally the Roman and Minoan warm periods are what I was thinking of, the later empires were viable due to technological advances in the case of the French/Spanish/British, which all built off the population rises from the MWP, or were just due to badassery and a coming from a cooler part of the world in the first place in the case of the Mongols.

You are right though that stability is key, and guess what periods have shallower temperature swings?

[Orange Wizard]

You are right though that stability is key, and guess what periods have shallower temperature swings?

Hard to say at a glance. Just prior to the medieval warming looks like a likely contender, and then again just prior to the medieval cooling. Middle of the Little Ice Age, maybe? Most of that was pretty localised in Northern Europe AFAIK, so other areas may have been pretty stable.

Oh wait, you're saying that warmer temperatures result in more stable climates. I'll get my coat.

[Max™]

You'll be hot, but ok, and like I said, really not interested in trying to disprove beliefs again. It's a problem I have.

[Egan_BW]

Perhaps, but I try to avoid beliefs: holding something to be true, whether there is evidence or not. You believe certain things, I doubt certain things, most things which I can't directly prove mathematically or logically actually.

There can be no proof, only evidence. Without doubt, your beliefs would be truly arbitrary and aimless. But, without belief, no evidence can be used. In order to function, we must make some assumptions. Indeed, we have no choice the matter; no human mind contains only doubt or belief, for it would be impossible to live without them. Nature has conditioned us to believe in what we consider the most likely, and it's best not to pretend we can do anything different.
To doubt for doubt's sake is as foolish as to have faith for faith's sake.

[Max™]

Not sure evidence requires belief, consistency in the face of experiment suffices, you can go down a rabbit hole if you want trying to justify some point of required belief, but it feels like a lie to say something is true when I don't know it is true, so I don't do it.

[Pencil_Art]

Then again, the Mongols took Russia during the winter, but they are always the exception.

[hops]

Then again, the Mongols took Russia during the winter, but they are always the exception.

Wait for it...

[Loud Whispers]

Then again, the Mongols took Russia during the winter, but they are always the exception.

Yeah Russian Winter just made them more powerful

[Avis-Mergulus]

Then again, the Mongols took a disjointed collection of feudal princedoms that was not quite Russia over the span of several years, and the actual Russian state began with kicking them out, so they're the ur-example and not in any way the exception.

Fixed that for you.

[Loud Whispers]

Then again, the Mongols took a disjointed collection of feudal princedoms that was not quite Russia over the span of several years, and the actual Russian state began with kicking them out, so they're the ur-example and not in any way the exception.

Fixed that for you.

Geographical Russia, not state of Russia
And they weren't kicked out, they went home

[Teneb]

Biggest arguments in favour of, like, warmness making empire, would mostly be the Mediterranean and Middle-east, which has been the origin of Persian, Greek, Roman, and various Islamic empires. No clue how that correlates to actual temperature changes, although at a glance it looks like those all collapsed as temperatures rose.

West romans fell because temperature lowered. It pretty much destroyed food production in north and eastern europe forcing people to migrate towards the mediterranean in a migrant crisis that is suspiciously similar to the current one.