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[Sergarr]

But if Strength means "how fast you swing your weapon", then why every other speed factor is governed by Dexterity?

They are not? Dexterity governs initiative. But that's sorta it. Speed is race/item/class feature based, and more closely related to strength because of carrying capacity then it is to dex. (Although generally not really related to ether.)

I guess like, skills. Strength tells your speed when you are Swiming Climbing and Jumping. Dex tells your speed for when you are sneaking. Although all of these are also more based on your base speed. (Jump being the more notable outlier in that it's more dependent on stats then base speed Although once again, in most cases except when you have truly super human stats, your skill is going to matter more)

You forgot that Dex gives bonuses to the Reflex save and armor class. So that constitutes three (3) speed-related things Dexterity governs. Compared to Strength's "attack speed", and various extra movement modes which become obsolete at the 5th level.

[Sirus]

You guys could always play 4e if it bothers you so much.

* Sirus ducks and runs away

[ShadowHammer]

Mobius strips.

I'm doing a comic assignment in Art class, and my teacher told us to be creative with the panel layout. He mentioned how some people did a circle of panels, so their comic didn't have a beginning or end, so I decided that it would be super cool to do a comic on a Mobius strip.

Now, while I'm planning it, ow. After some experimentation, I kinda get how it works, and I figured out how to orient the panels so that they'll work and be right-side up all the time, but... just, what? In what world does this geometry make any sense?

In our own world, of course. Duh.

What kind of insane, eldritch world do we live in?

Minkowski space

...
After googling that, I'm not less confused.

[Criptfeind]

If by obsolete you meant flight, strength is still relevant to that, with some forms of flight it being much much much more relevant then it is to ground speed (if you have a mode of flight that grants a fly speed you can only fly carrying a light load. Way more relevant then just a penalty to speed based on the worst of your armor or weight.) Also for a lot of melee characters jump never becomes 'obsolete'. Because jump attack.

Secondly, reflex saves and armor class are not necessarily just 'speed'. In those cases it's more like reflexes. Hell, in initiatives case it's the same. That's a mix of mental and physical. In fact, if you go read in the players handbooks about the stats and what that mean. That's exactly what it says. Strength is muscle and physical power. Dex is hand-eye coordination, agility, reflexes, and balance. Actual raw physical speed is certainly within the domain of strength.

[Sergarr]

If by obsolete you meant flight, strength is still relevant to that, with some forms of flight it being much much much more relevant then it is to ground speed (if you have a mode of flight that grants a fly speed you can only fly carrying a light load. Way more relevant then just a penalty to speed based on the worst of your armor or weight.) Also for a lot of melee characters jump never becomes 'obsolete'. Because jump attack.

1) Characters who can use the ability of flight the best are usually the types who don't need to carry much gear around.
2) Jump attack is a specific feat; it's also the one that I'm pretty sure most non-optimized chars don't take, given that it isn't in the core.

Secondly, reflex saves and armor class are not necessarily just 'speed'... In fact, if you go read in the players handbooks about the stats and what that mean... Actual raw physical speed is certainly within the domain of strength.

"Reflex saving throws, for avoiding fireballs and other attacks that you can escape by moving quickly."

welp

And it's pretty strongly implied that AC increase is due to speed: "Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack." - the "react to attack" part is already covered before the dex bonus can come into play.

[Lord Shonus]

I just now realize that the title of "A Wrinkle In Time" isn't just a title, it referrs to the tesseract (or folding (wrinkling!) of space-time) that lies at the heart of the book's plot. I don't know how I never spotted that before.

[Criptfeind]

Every character can use flight a lot. And jump attack is in one of the completes. That's like. Core adjacent. You don't need to be a hard core optimizer to be using that.

And read your own link. Moving quickly, as in you quickly move. As in reflexes. It's pretty clear that you don't physically outrun the fire ball. (Because otherwise it wouldn't make sense that you can still be in the AOE when it resolves.) Clearly you... Dodge it in some way... Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But you don't outrun it.

[Sergarr]

Every character can use flight a lot. And jump attack is in one of the completes. That's like. Core adjacent. You don't need to be a hard core optimizer to be using that.

And read your own link. Moving quickly, as in you quickly move. As in reflexes. It's pretty clear that you don't physically outrun the fire ball. (Because otherwise it wouldn't make sense that you can still be in the AOE when it resolves.) Clearly you... Dodge it in some way... Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But you don't outrun it.

A melee fighter is going to be less useful with flight than a ranged one. Or a magician.

Reflex save making no sense is in the same pile as the current role of AC being both dodging and armor at a quantum-like superposition. Hell, you can somehow "dodge" an area attack with area of effect so big that you wouldn't be able to dodge normally. Still, moving quickly is an attribute of speed. Reflexes can allow you to react faster - but not to move quicker.

[Lagslayer]

You don't have time to move out of the way, but you can twist/turn a bit so you don't take the full force. You are finding a weaker area in the not-perfectly-uniform AoE.

As for the "strength to hit" thing, that's sort of the default instinctual thing. Finesse takes a bit more skill, so you would normally need special practice to do it properly. Further, not all weapon profiles benefit much from the increased precision. Strength, on the other hand, might not give as much fine movement, but you can physically swing it faster and harder, making it more difficult to dodge. Dexterity is muscle control, not raw speed.

[Criptfeind]

react faster - move quicker.

These words. They can mean the same thing.

[Redzephyr01]

The sad thread was apparently locked.

[Bauglir]

The threads are sure escalating quickly today. And this one, the WTF thread, over a strange thing, too.

[Arcvasti]

I'm just impressed with how fast one of the primary actors in the sad thread escalation can type. How do people even DO that?

[Graknorke]

I'm just impressed with how fast one of the primary actors in the sad thread escalation can type. How do people even DO that?

I thought it was psychic powers. So that the typing was actually done weeks in advance, ready to be posted.

[crazysheep]

Obsession.
Resentment.
Anger.

Escalation is easy given a combination of those.