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[hector13]

... wrf do your bosses make you do?

[Dunamisdeos]

Well, I sit in a box and get made to perform tasks with irritating prompts and jarring alerts. I do not leave this box unless I am asked to do so. I have become accustomed to these things through repetition.

No-one gives me any goddam fruit, so I guess my point is fuck those horses why do they get apples.

[hector13]

Horses are big and can kick you in the face.

I think you have your answer.

[Flying Dice]

I challenge you Kot.

Go find a wild horse and ride it, see how much it likes it. Feed it an apple if you like.

Once you get out the hospital, you can tell us how it went.

I find it difficult to accept that it's not cruel to sit atop a horse with 100lbs+ of weight as a person, plus however much the equipment weighs and essentially demand it does things by pulling its head about and squeezing it's ribs, then keep it in a box 'til the next time.

The fact the horse has to be taught to be comfortable doing these things should tell you something. Perhaps that when you point a finger at someone questioning their sanity, there are four others pointing back at you cheeky mare.

That proves nothing. Any wild animal will react negatively and/or unpredictably if you try to treat it like a domesticated one. That includes humans, by the by.

We also have to be taught to be comfortable doing all sorts of stuff, including tolerating 100+lbs of person riding us.

[Dunamisdeos]

Well, I sit in a box and get made to perform tasks with irritating prompts and jarring alerts. I do not leave this box unless I am asked to do so. I have become accustomed to these things through repetition.

No-one gives me any goddam fruit, so I guess my point is fuck those horses why do they get apples.

Horses are big and can kick you in the face.

I think you have your answer.

I am 250 lbs. and stand at 6"4' are you telling me that all I need to do at work is start fly kicking people in the teeth to start getting my due of fresh produce.

[hector13]

I challenge you Kot.

Go find a wild horse and ride it, see how much it likes it. Feed it an apple if you like.

Once you get out the hospital, you can tell us how it went.

I find it difficult to accept that it's not cruel to sit atop a horse with 100lbs+ of weight as a person, plus however much the equipment weighs and essentially demand it does things by pulling its head about and squeezing it's ribs, then keep it in a box 'til the next time.

The fact the horse has to be taught to be comfortable doing these things should tell you something. Perhaps that when you point a finger at someone questioning their sanity, there are four others pointing back at you cheeky mare.

That proves nothing. Any wild animal will react negatively and/or unpredictably if you try to treat it like a domesticated one. That includes humans, by the by.

We also have to be taught to be comfortable doing all sorts of stuff, including tolerating 100+lbs of person riding us.

How does this make it not cruel?

Well, I sit in a box and get made to perform tasks with irritating prompts and jarring alerts. I do not leave this box unless I am asked to do so. I have become accustomed to these things through repetition.

No-one gives me any goddam fruit, so I guess my point is fuck those horses why do they get apples.

Horses are big and can kick you in the face.

I think you have your answer.

I am 250 lbs. and stand at 6"4' are you telling me that all I need to do at work is start fly kicking people in the teeth to start getting my due of fresh produce.

I'm sure you'd get some apples after that.

[Eric Blank]

I challenge you Kot.

Go find a wild horse and ride it, see how much it likes it. Feed it an apple if you like.

Once you get out the hospital, you can tell us how it went.

I find it difficult to accept that it's not cruel to sit atop a horse with 100lbs+ of weight as a person, plus however much the equipment weighs and essentially demand it does things by pulling its head about and squeezing it's ribs, then keep it in a box 'til the next time.

The fact the horse has to be taught to be comfortable doing these things should tell you something. Perhaps that when you point a finger at someone questioning their sanity, there are four others pointing back at you cheeky mare.

Their response to it is largely a response to predation. Predators jump on their backs without asking first. Predators jump out of the bushes and frighten them, predators so on and so forth. Horses natural response to most things is to treat it as if it were a predator first.
You should never approach a wild animal and try to mount it or feed it. If it doesn't think you're trying to kill it or its offspring, it probably still doesn't want you in its personal space. Asking somebody to go hug a wild animal doesn't prove anything except how stupid the party in question might be if they actually listen to you.
Of course when you leave them to their own devices in the wild for a generation or two, all the stupid, placid, friendly ones that get along with people best get eaten or starve and you have a population that doesn't particularly like company. Same with any other domestic animal.

Horses are actually quite capable of hauling a load, 100lbs is really very little, most adults can handle that. 250 is more the upper end of the spectrum for lightweight or young horses. It would be cruel to make them carry more than an individual is fit to carry, but consider that most folks who understand and work with horses know their and their animals' limits and wouldn't do that.

Pulling on the reigns and pressing against the ribs is a sign of bad horsemanship. If your horse has been trained properly, likes you, your equipment is properly fitted, and you know what you're doing riding should never involve use of force, and you should never hit your horse to get it to do what you want. Effectively it becomes pointing them in a direction and relaxing, maybe reassuring them that they can in fact step over that log without getting bitten by it. If they are comfortable around you, know you, and everything is well they're probably happy to get out and go for a walk, they usually enjoy it even. For one thing it becomes a form of socialization, you're paying attention to and caring for them and they're doing the same for you (through a different mode.)
If it's a breed such as a quarter horse or draft horse, they really need to have a job, something to keep them occupied. Often things like hauling people and objects around, chasing things, pulling things... Because when they get bored they start to destroy things for fun. Just like dogs, and people.

And there are laws that specifically forbid keeping livestock in a box, that is cruel and sensible people know it. I've never been to a place where you could get away with that. Your neighbors will rat you out. Even at the rodeo pasture is provided for the animals to stay in overnight.

[Kot]

Go find a wild horse and ride it, see how much it likes it. Feed it an apple if you like.

Wild horses don't really technically exist (except Przewalski's Horse, but that one also has domesticated blood in it), they are all feral horses, as in they were domesticated before (or their ancestors were), for various reasons (more on this later). Also, people SOMEHOW managed to capture and train horses before which I agree is quite stressful for the horse, but at this point it doesn't... really happen, simply because random feral horses are fucking rare and those that exist are under protection.
Honestly though, feeding it apples (carefully, not running up to one and pushing an apple down it's throat) might actually work out since horses are greedy bastards and more intelligent than they seem. Fuck, I'd classify them as more human than some humans.

Once you get out the hospital, you can tell us how it went.

That's... the point. Horses aren't things you can be cruel with without some serious advantage like a cattle prod (good luck trying to teach it anything that way though) and at that point the horse is about as likely to just charge you or flip the fuck out until it dies because that's the way of the horse. Mutual trust and treats (GIB APPLES HOOMAN) or no-deal.

I find it difficult to accept that it's not cruel to sit atop a horse with 100lbs+ of weight as a person, plus however much the equipment weighs and essentially demand it does things by pulling its head about and squeezing it's ribs, then keep it in a box 'til the next time.

Dude.
DUDE.
First of all, 100lbs (that's about 50 kilos, I think...? Fuck, you guys should start using reasonable measurements please) is fucking nothing to a horse. It proably shits out more in weight than that during one day. Saddles are usually between 10 to 30 (very heavy duty work saddles)kgs, with the various other stuff proably about 5kgs max. The horse weights from about 400kgs to even a fucking tonne. And only complete idiots that want to end up on ground pull reins and "crush" (holy shit, do you actually expect a human to crush a ribs of something that's... I simply can't even...) it's ribs.
And if you were referring to work horses, you have very, very shitty idea how horse collars and harnesses work. First of all, the whole point of those is to make the horse push (essentially, though you still call that pulling), rather than simply pulling. Of course, it wasn't proably created to make horses feel better, but mainly because this way they can push over a tonne and a half easily while they can pull only 1/3 of that, but the point stands and it doesn't actually strain the animal that much. It's actually pretty much required for them to do something since otherwise they get fat or break shit or end up as sasuages.
And, to be perfectly honest, the horses have it better this way. They are greedy and intelligent bastards and they understand that warm, dry and spacious stable with auto-feeding systems and people who go around cleaning them and they get fucking treats and all they do is... carrying a dude that's 1/10th of their weight around from day to day while the rest of the time they happily prance on fresh and green grass? Even the work horses have it pretty good, mainly because if someone uses one then proably they have to which makes people care for them more than for themselves.
And in wild? They all would be dead 10,000 years ago. Horses aren't suited to live in wild, not anymore.

The fact the horse has to be taught to be comfortable doing these things should tell you something. Perhaps that when you point a finger at someone questioning their sanity, there are four others pointing back at you cheeky mare.

It doesn't, not really, and horses don't really mind that you sit on them, they mind the fact that you drag them away from eating/fucking/children to do something more (or you want to eat them), even if getting fat is actually fucking harmful to them and a straight route to becoming sasuages.
And that's the sad truth. If we were to stop using horses completly, it wouldn't be free-range heaven for them, it would be getting sent to butcher-shop. That's where horses without work end. And "wild" horses? There's a reason why they only exist in meaningful numbers in Asia, and that reason being sheer vastness and emptiness of it, and it's pretty much proven that domestication of the horse saved it as a species (proof is that they went extinct in Americas while only domesticated ones survived in Eurasia). The killing of horses is already a problem, very big problem actually. Thousands upon thousands horses are being send annualy to be turned into hot-dogs simply because nobody really wants to use them anymore... but hey, that's completly okay since horse meat is delicious, right? Maybe we should set up horse farms like we did with pigs or cows... oh wait, we already do that.

[saigo]

How does this make it not cruel?

Horses don't suffer from being ridden. In fact I would say that the companionship may be a net gain for the animal in some cases.

[TempAcc]

Yeeeea, you'd have to be pretty damn fat and inexperienced at riding to actualy endanger a horse by riding it. I have seen a few actual work and logging horses in my lifetime and they're goddamn machines. There's a reason to why nearly every civilization in the world with access to horses used them, and that is that their physical strenght and endurance is goddamn legendary, while being easier to ride (and faster) than your average bull. Keep in mind that keeping a horse in tip top cheap is a serious investment, but the benefits outweight the costs so much that maintaining mounted troops still seemed reasonable up until WW1.

[Dunamisdeos]

According to the internet a 1000lb horse is the approximate ideal size of a race horse. A horse this weight is allowed by law to pull 1500lb of weight. Their theoretical maximum pulling weight is 6000lb.

The safe (not maximum) carrying weight of a 1000lb horse is approximately 20% of their total weight (averaged from various sources). Ergo a 100lb human is a joke.

Now, a DRAFT horse weighs around 1400-2000lbs. Therefore by law a horse is allowed to pull and carry a tiny widdle pittance of their actual capacity, and then they get showered in fucking apples and friendship.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Fun fact: In the pre-car era, it wasn't uncommon to go out and get utterly wasted at a bar, then sleep on your horse while it goes home on its own.

That's right. We lost self-driving transportation for a century or so.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

*watches eagerly*

That's funny. Reinventing the horse, anyone?

dammit that's probly where you got the info

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Forum temporarily go down for anyone else?

[Whisperling]

Forum temporarily go down for anyone else?

Yep. Other things were lagging too, so I thought it was something on my end, but guess not.