Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.  (Read 3917 times)

Drakeero

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« on: October 17, 2010, 09:40:34 pm »

While i know that micromanagement is probably the only real solution, I'm looking for ways to minimize micromanagement, or at least make it seem like things are getting done faster.  Here's some stuff I've figured out already and since I'm still new it may be obvious to you guys.  I'd still like your input on your techniques though.

1: I tend to plan out large sections of my fortress early on but break the mining designations so I can specifically control the order that rooms are dug out in.  Left to their own miners tend to earthworm their way through the fortress plans digging out random corners and half-rooms for many a season.  Unless rooms are micromanaged they'll even leave pillars of dirt or stone conveniently in the middle of everything making it difficult to actually start to furnish or use a room until some drunk miner decides to come back and finish the job.

2: Stone Management, same idea.  I never ever try to d-b-d large clumps of stones for dropping.  Maybe one room or two small rooms at a time.  Work hallways in segments.  That way it actually gets DONE rather then a stone here, a stone there, forever and a season.  It makes it much easier to free up inside storerooms in a hurry to get the goods out of the rain.

3: Reverse examples, building furniture seems to happen quite quickly and efficiently even when I designate a ton of it at once.  Same with cage traps.  I have to designate a -lot- of cage traps at once for the process to start to scatter and drag.

4: Chokepoints I can't seem to get around: A - assigning a lot of animals to be placed into one cage [I guess the obvious solution would be to build more cages], and B - danger room construction, hooking up all the spears to a lever takes awhile.

I figure that micromanagement is a state of mind that I'm slowly learning to develop.  What other activities or tasks benefit from micromanagement like above?

Part 2, stockpile efficiency:

I already break up my food stockpiles into seeds, drinks, and foods with the mix food orders turned off.  I suppose there isn't really much use to segregating food/drink except it makes it easier to tell in passing when one is about to run out and you haven't hit z in awhile.  I've learned the hard way that you want your Trade Depot in a central position to the majority of your stockpiles...

Anyway, I've been experimenting with restricting stockpiles, transferring them, separating out established stockpiles, etc.  Recently I noticed a massive abundance of various bags of sand and a never-ending stream of buckets in my furniture stockpile while my workshops ended up *CLT* from whatever they happened to be making.  I set up a special furniture stockpile just above the trade depot, played with the settings, then removed the original furniture stockpile designations under what I didn't like and got them seperated.  Now I have a waiting bay for shipping excess junk and a functional furniture stockpile again.

I have some specialized stone stockpiles floating around and I've gotten into the habit of keeping soap and such out of my metalworking bar piles, and my stone block piles are safetly on the other side of the fortress without crossover.

Are there any other common stockpile customizations that you find will really make your life easier or prettier?

[Also, is there a way to get a stockpile for ONLY stone mechanisms?  I tinkered with the settings for awhile but the mechanisms just sat in the workshop.  Some of the sub-menus seem to overlap quite a bit with materials and I'm not sure how the overlapping works yet.]

P.S. I'm learning it is possible to use multiple quantum storage sites.  Maybe not all at once, but definitely in different locations.  Combined with micromanaging of economic/non-economic rock and mass-forbidding from the stocks screen I can sort of control which materials things end up in.
Logged
Cage traps are my magma.

NecroRebel

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 10:25:27 pm »

1: I tend to plan out large sections of my fortress early on but break the mining designations so I can specifically control the order that rooms are dug out in.  Left to their own miners tend to earthworm their way through the fortress plans digging out random corners and half-rooms for many a season.  Unless rooms are micromanaged they'll even leave pillars of dirt or stone conveniently in the middle of everything making it difficult to actually start to furnish or use a room until some drunk miner decides to come back and finish the job.

This is a very good idea, though depending on how your fort is laid out it might not be terribly important. I usually design single (or a few) different areas that I can stick together modularly, make macros of them, and then use the macros whenever I need more space. For instance, my current fort is 49x49 tiles on every z-level, and I have a pair of macros set up that quickly designate the whole thing in seconds. Very nice  ;D

Quote
2: Stone Management, same idea.  I never ever try to d-b-d large clumps of stones for dropping.  Maybe one room or two small rooms at a time.  Work hallways in segments.  That way it actually gets DONE rather then a stone here, a stone there, forever and a season.  It makes it much easier to free up inside storerooms in a hurry to get the goods out of the rain.

Personally, I find clearing hallways and stockpiles that will have barrels or bins to be a waste of time. Barrels and bins can be placed on top of

3: Reverse examples, building furniture seems to happen quite quickly and efficiently even when I designate a ton of it at once.  Same with cage traps.  I have to designate a -lot- of cage traps at once for the process to start to scatter and drag.

4: Chokepoints I can't seem to get around: A - assigning a lot of animals to be placed into one cage [I guess the obvious solution would be to build more cages], and B - danger room construction, hooking up all the spears to a lever takes awhile.

I figure that micromanagement is a state of mind that I'm slowly learning to develop.  What other activities or tasks benefit from micromanagement like above?

I find that it's better in the long run to minimize micromanagement. For instance, clearing hallways and any stockpiles that will have barrels or bins in them of stones is more-or-less a waste of time, as the stones don't hinder those areas' function at all. In fact, it's only things like wood and refuse stockpiles that I usually try to clear. Furniture stockpiles are generally a waste of time IMO, since they fill so quickly, and I usually try to make furniture only as I need it via the manager (except doors; I can never have enough stone doors).

Really, the only things I find I have to micromanage is my metalworks, because I like to constantly melt down anything below masterwork until everything is perfect, my military, since that's just sort of like that, and my meat industry when I have one since I have to monitor when I have enough food and set things to slaughter. Everything else, I try to set up so that I can let the dwarves manage themselves.

Quote
Part 2, stockpile efficiency:

I already break up my food stockpiles into seeds, drinks, and foods with the mix food orders turned off.  I suppose there isn't really much use to segregating food/drink except it makes it easier to tell in passing when one is about to run out and you haven't hit z in awhile.  I've learned the hard way that you want your Trade Depot in a central position to the majority of your stockpiles...

Anyway, I've been experimenting with restricting stockpiles, transferring them, separating out established stockpiles, etc.  Recently I noticed a massive abundance of various bags of sand and a never-ending stream of buckets in my furniture stockpile while my workshops ended up *CLT* from whatever they happened to be making.  I set up a special furniture stockpile just above the trade depot, played with the settings, then removed the original furniture stockpile designations under what I didn't like and got them seperated.  Now I have a waiting bay for shipping excess junk and a functional furniture stockpile again.

Well, as I mentioned before, I usually don't make furniture stockpiles, myself. A refuse stockpile specifically for things that won't rot (bones, skulls, shells, horns) is always nice, as it often lets me get those things closer to my workshops rather than up near the surface where they were rotting in the sunshine.

Quote
I have some specialized stone stockpiles floating around and I've gotten into the habit of keeping soap and such out of my metalworking bar piles, and my stone block piles are safetly on the other side of the fortress without crossover.

Are there any other common stockpile customizations that you find will really make your life easier or prettier?

One important tip I've found to be quite useful is to put workshops' input stockpile directly above or below them. That is, make your workshop chambers 4x3 instead of 3x3, make the extra line into stairs, and put a stockpile one level up or down from there. Not only does this let you control what your workers use more easily (as they'll consider the materials 1 level down and 1 away from them to be closest most of the time), it often drastically shortens travel times for the workers, too.

Quote
[Also, is there a way to get a stockpile for ONLY stone mechanisms?  I tinkered with the settings for awhile but the mechanisms just sat in the workshop.  Some of the sub-menus seem to overlap quite a bit with materials and I'm not sure how the overlapping works yet.]

The settings should be... Let's see... Furniture/Siege Ammo stockpile, Type Mechanisms, Material Stone, Metals go through and turn off all "actual" metals and leave the stone-types-that-are-inexplicably-in-the-metal-list on (I have another macro that simply hits enter and down 26 times in a row; very useful, as it toggles all real metal types when used at the top of that list), and then Core and Total Quality whatever you want.

Oh, and as I alluded to before: look into Macros! Being able to do some things that you do often, like select/deselect metal types or selecting things to bring to the trade depot.
Logged
A Better Magma Pump Stack: For all your high-FPS surface-level magma installation needs!

Drakeero

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 10:41:49 pm »

Thank you, I got my mechanism stockpile to work.  Pretty messed up overlap it has, isn't it?

Thanks for the idea of remelting everything below a certain quality level but for some reason quality doesn't seem to be raising very fast.  My furnance operators, blacksmiths, weaponsmiths, and armorsmiths are clanking around the clock but leveling seems quite slow.  Maybe they're all idiots with poor spatial ability or something.

As for stone management, it just bugs me.  I'm kinda OCD about it.  I don't want to use hide, and I don't want to leave them laying around.  They just have to be filed away for use later.

Now that I've learned how to clear out furniture stockpile and designate mini-stockpiles where I'll need them my furniture stockpile(s) don't seem to be spamming up as fast.  I figure a little bit longer and I'll get more of a hang of them.

And yeah, micromanagement is fun for a little bit but it does get old if one particular thing gets too repetitious for too long without a break.
Logged
Cage traps are my magma.

AngleWyrm

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 10:45:45 pm »

I separate out two different bars stockpiles; one for metal and the other for fuel. It's the same idea as separating food from drink, in that it lets me see directly when I'm running low on fuel or metal.
Logged

Shoku

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 12:13:14 am »

Getting a lot of animals into a cage goes a lot faster if the cage is right next to the meeting zone. Yes zone. I don't make my dining room into a meeting hall unless I want to suddenly find myself without any dwarves to go hauling things around and otherwise doing useful work. If you've got a spot for the cage in mind then get rid of all your other meeting areas and designate a 3x3 zone right by the cage until all the critters are locked away.

Just make the danger room pretty small. I use 8 single spear traps and I should probably really just use six. If you shrink the room down so it's only one tile thick around the piece of furniture you can probably be pretty sure nobody will try to stand on the wrong side of a door.
After you get a few guys to the tenth skill level or so the non-danger-room type of training is reasonably quick. You're probably going to to to legendaries anyway and by that point if you put them in charge of two recruits each they spread their skill pretty damn fast.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For stockpiles the secret is basically don't leave them sitting around. Just like you don't designate a 50x50 area to have it's stones dumped don't go giving tons of jobs for dwarves to run back and forth moving trivial crap around- unless you don't have something else for your peasant haulers to do. Food is an obvious exception because of how it will rot but you need a pretty serious farm set up if food is really crippling your hauling progress. Aside from that just be decisive about what the most important thing to haul is and how long it would be ok for your haulers to haul that stuff before hauling anything else. Otherwise go ahead and mass dump some stones until you have something useful for them to do. It's not much effort to mass un-dump a level of stone so they can go do something else.

I pretty regularly place a large furniture stockpile that I only want one sort of thing in: sand bags. To do this I just forbid that first option. I don't want any mechanisms, doors, or beds in it but leather, cloth, and silk bags are all fine- hell, stone, bone, and metal bags too if I had some crazy fey mood or something. And I certainly don't care what the quality of the bag is.
(Sand bags, like prepared meals, are not quite in the type list but instead are toggled with the u key.)

-

And if you follow my hauling advice you could toggle your garbage dumps without having to worry about stone going next the workshop just just wanted everyone to drag 100 doors out of. I have to dump the empty bags out of my glass forges once I've got a really large number of bags waiting between refills.

Stuff like minimizing the number of steps between anything in your fort matter a whole lot less when you can just immediately ensure that twenty dwarves will start hauling stuff around right when you want them to.

BONUS: For less stone in your halls use inexperienced miners. I embark with a bunch of extra picks so people aren't just waiting around until I dig out their workshop area or some place to store everything valuable from the wagon. They don't get long skinny hallways done very quickly but once there's more than 3 tiles exposed at a time you won't even miss the 5 levels on two of them from embark. Takes a little monitoring a ways in if you want to make sure they never grow past the skill you want them to have a fey mood with though.
Logged
Please get involved with my making worlds thread.

The Grackle

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 12:41:14 am »

I just evaporate stones nowadays. It's cheaty but I'm really not interested in playing the hauling-stones game over and over with every fort.  Before that though, I'd often use all the stone to build rough stone floors in hallways etc.  Sort of like an invisible stockpile. Masons can construct floors where they lay WAY faster than haulers can haul them across your fort.   

A good trick to save space and time is to not have any stockpiles for bars.  Just build two or three smelters right next to each of your forges and let them get cluttered.  The slow down from having a cluttered workshop is negligible.  Having a million bars within three steps of your smiths will make up for it.
Logged

albatross

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 03:31:14 am »

Try building temporary mason's workshops (plural) in freshly dug out rooms. Then place block stockpiles next to them. Make sure you have bins. Then start cranking out blocks. In other words, don't bring the stones to the mason, bring the mason to stones, this cuts down the amount of hauling. Once a bin is full, dump it or remove the stockpile designation from that tile, or whatever. Try building entire rooms dedicated for storing stone blocks. Then forbid them all and seal the room. Or just build the temporary mason's workshops in the room corners, grind some stones to blocks until the workshops are too damn full and just leave them there.
Logged

SalmonGod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nyarrr
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 03:58:47 am »

I haven't seen it mentioned and I don't actually know how much of a difference it makes (still new and don't bother with too much micromanagement).

I tend to build groupings of similar workshops each in their own small room centered around a staircase.  Up/down the staircase is a giant stockpile of whatever is related to that group of workshops.  Every workshop has its own mini-stockpile which is set to retrieve from the larger one.  Works pretty well for me so far.  Once that is set up, I don't seem to need to worry too much about where my goods are.  Things flow to their proper places.

I also don't worry about clearing out stone.  I just have a few dwarves forever set to crank out rock crafts/blocks/doors/etc.  It only clears things out really slowly, but I see it as part of the challenge.  I am kind of hollowing out a mountain.  Realistically, I'm either wading through all that rock I just cut through until something is done with it, or I dump it all outside as I go and make a mini-mountain.  Anything else feels like cheating.  Not accusing, that's just me.  If I really need a room cleared out, I make that room a stone stockpile and then make another stockpile in open space that is ordered to take from the room I want to clear.
Logged
In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Urist McTaverish

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 04:37:21 am »


As for stone management, it just bugs me.  I'm kinda OCD about it.  I don't want to use hide, and I don't want to leave them laying around.  They just have to be filed away for use later.

Best thing you can do is just mass dump them into a custom garbage dump one square wide, preferably nearby the shops that use them the most.  It'll be a bitch to reclaim all that stone (unless you set up a macro) but it'll all be much more easily managed.
Logged
Here at Bay12, we're constantly looking for ways to set the world on fire.
But at least after all the chaos, the weather cleared.

Daetrin

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 06:52:15 am »


As for stone management, it just bugs me.  I'm kinda OCD about it.  I don't want to use hide, and I don't want to leave them laying around.  They just have to be filed away for use later.

Best thing you can do is just mass dump them into a custom garbage dump one square wide, preferably nearby the shops that use them the most.  It'll be a bitch to reclaim all that stone (unless you set up a macro) but it'll all be much more easily managed.

Mass reclaim.
Logged
All you need to know about Ardentdikes
It is really, really easy to flood this place with magma fwiw.

Doors stop fire, right?

Zaik

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 08:06:51 am »


As for stone management, it just bugs me.  I'm kinda OCD about it.  I don't want to use hide, and I don't want to leave them laying around.  They just have to be filed away for use later.

Best thing you can do is just mass dump them into a custom garbage dump one square wide, preferably nearby the shops that use them the most.  It'll be a bitch to reclaim all that stone (unless you set up a macro) but it'll all be much more easily managed.


You can mass reclaim, you know that, right? You can't even mass dump without being in mass reclaim mode, it's the default setting after you hit d-b :P
Logged
[MILL_CHILD:ONLY_IF_GOOD_REASON]

LealNightrunner

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 08:36:39 am »


As for stone management, it just bugs me.  I'm kinda OCD about it.  I don't want to use hide, and I don't want to leave them laying around.  They just have to be filed away for use later.

Best thing you can do is just mass dump them into a custom garbage dump one square wide, preferably nearby the shops that use them the most.  It'll be a bitch to reclaim all that stone (unless you set up a macro) but it'll all be much more easily managed.


You can mass reclaim, you know that, right? You can't even mass dump without being in mass reclaim mode, it's the default setting after you hit d-b :P

See signature.
Logged
Current Fort: NatureRags

postal83

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2010, 11:32:21 am »



You can mass reclaim, you know that, right? You can't even mass dump without being in mass reclaim mode, it's the default setting after you hit d-b :P

Oh good lord.... I did NOT know this lol.  My wrist has been hurting more than when I discovered fapping.
Logged

Quietust

  • Bay Watcher
  • Does not suffer fools gladly
    • View Profile
    • QMT Productions
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 11:46:24 am »

In fact, the mass reclaim designation was the first mass item designation that was ever implemented, back when the only way an item could be Forbidden was when you abandoned your fortress - furthermore, back then, (d)-(c) was the only way you could reclaim items.
Logged
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

Moosey

  • Bay Watcher
  • [moose brute extract]
    • View Profile
Re: Tricks for speeding up labors and stockpile efficiency.
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 02:06:26 pm »

Here is my four patented anally-retentive workshop/stockpile floors:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Each floor (except the bottom one) has a hole in the middle of the stairwell.  When digging each floor out, a Garbage Dump is designated around this hole, and all the stone is dumped as each section is completed.  The miners are also set to not do refuse hauling so they won't stop digging to dump stone.  This allows efficient dumping for each floor, and all the stone ends up in a single location.  Once all the floors are done, I'll usually assign the Garbage Dump to the hole on the ground floor, and use it to dump used bolts and useless enemy equipment.

When making armor sets, I find using the manager (j-m) saves from a lot of micromanagement.  I didn't know how to use this screen until recently.. It's definitely worth figuring out.

When re-claiming stuff, I usually do it through the stocks screen.  You can reclaim stone globally this way, so you can use the hole to dump things you don't want to reclaim.
Logged
Backs to the wheel
There's granite to shove
Pages: [1] 2