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Author Topic: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions  (Read 2208 times)

Shrugging Khan

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Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« on: September 23, 2010, 08:08:22 am »

So, I'm finally getting around to starting a new fort, now on 31.13! World genned, embark selected, carefully prepared, all right!
But there's a bunch of questions I can't go without asking about the current version...and some things I just plain forgot and can't seem to find out via wiki. So humour me!

Firstly, do Caravans still arrive without wagons? Do I need to make my entrance hallway three tiles wide, or is a narrow passage equally functional?

Secondly, are the Dungeon Masters finally back in, or shall I just have any exotic animals used for marksdwarf training on the spot?

Thirdly, speaking of marksdorfs; Is military equipment working a little better now than it was before?

And for the fourth, something version-independent: If I hollow out some tiles next to a murky pool, will the rainwater still accumulate in there and flow over into my reservoir, or will a floodgate-less approach merely lead to rapid evaporation?

And the fifth...ah, yes! All I can see in my [c]ivilisation screen is the Ant-Men. But pre-embark, the tab-window spoke to me of elves, goblins, dwarves and humans. Is the s[c]reen so empty purely because I have not yet received any visitors, or am I actually (almost) alone out here in the wild?


Gentledorfs, I salute you!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 08:40:02 am by Shrugging Khan »
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MechaGodzilla

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Re: Shrugger's Questions
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 08:14:04 am »

So, I'm finally getting around to starting a new fort, now on 31.13! World genned, embark selected, carefully prepared, all right!
But there's a bunch of questions I can't go without asking about the current version...and some things I just plain forgot and can't seem to find out via wiki. So humour me!

Firstly, do Caravans still arrive without wagons? Do I need to make my entrance hallway three tiles wide, or is a narrow passage equally functional?

Secondly, are the Dungeon Masters finally back in, or shall I just have any exotic animals used for marksdwarf training on the spot?

Thirdly, speaking of marksdorfs; Is military equipment working a little better now than it was before?

And for the fourth, something version-independent: If I hollow out some tiles next to a murky pool, will the rainwater still accumulate in there and flow over into my reservoir, or will a floodgate-less approach merely lead to rapid evaporation?

And the fifth...ah, yes! All I can see in my [c]ivilisation screen is the Ant-Men. But pre-embark, the tab-window spoke to me of elves, goblins, dwarves and humans. Is the s[c]reen so empty purely because I have not yet received any visitors, or am I actually (almost) alone out here in the wild?


Gentledorfs, I salute you!

In attempt to answer some of these,

1) yup. no wagons. Theyll go up and down stairs just as easily as dorfs
2) As far as i can tell, DM is still bugged.... alot of the time ya dont get it.
3) I.... dont know... I havent managed to figure out the military stuff quite yet xD
4) It can, however if its too large then evaporation will occur quickly. a floodgate probably is your best option, if not just for the extra control
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TurkeyXIII

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Re: Shrugger's Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 08:40:30 am »

3: It's functional, but still a bit shaky sometimes.  You might have to check the inventory of your soldiers, and micro their equipment if something important's missing.

5: You are correct.  Other civs will show up once they've visited you (whether you can see them or not I believe).
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Sphalerite

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 08:56:10 am »

Firstly, do Caravans still arrive without wagons? Do I need to make my entrance hallway three tiles wide, or is a narrow passage equally functional?
You don't need a three tile wide entryway, but it can still be useful.  Even though wagons don't show up anymore, the game still checks to see if a three tile wide path exists from any point on the map edge to your depot, and if so the caravan will appear on that path.  If there's no three tile wide path, the caravan will just appear on any random spot on the map edge.  You can use this to control where the caravan appears.
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 09:30:30 am »

Ah well, no bother then. The only worrisome spot on the map is the ocean, and I doubt a caravan will arrive at that particular angle.

But thanks overall, fellow dorfmongers! Your replies are most appreciated.
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Starver

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Re: Shrugger's Questions
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 09:36:10 am »

And for the fourth, something version-independent: If I hollow out some tiles next to a murky pool, will the rainwater still accumulate in there and flow over into my reservoir, or will a floodgate-less approach merely lead to rapid evaporation?

In attempt to answer some of these,

4) It can, however if its too large then evaporation will occur quickly. a floodgate probably is your best option, if not just for the extra control

In a particularly waterless environment, with occasional (and sometimes partial) pond-filling, I've sometimes attempted the following method.  Controlled either by lever or pressure-plate.  Although I've usually encountered other problems before seeing it proved as successful... However, on with the plan.

From the pond, set into its wall (without changing the ground 'floor' above it) a channelled drop into a single cell with an adjacent floodgate exit.  Whenever the pond gets rained into, this cell gets filled to some degree or other.  (You could set a floor-hatch to control when/whether it will at any given time.)  And the cell is protected from the usual evaporation of water (depth-1 excepted) as it's not open to the sky.

When this cell is full (or full-enough, according to tuning) open the floodgate exit to let it fall into another pond, that you've dug, this time of more than one cell.  If you have engineered it to empty a single cell of 7 water into (say) three others, then you will have at least two water in each (depending on if more than one of the original seven evaporated while the water was in transit or busy settling).

Set it up so that you can rinse and repeat this process, whenever you have enough water in any particular level's cells to dump into a large reservoir lower down.  After the three-cell, gets filled to the top, or nearly so, you should be able to dump them into a set of up to nine (but perhaps better to be eight or less, due to 'wavefront evaporation') cells on the level below.  A few fills from the three-cell level (perpetuated by proportionately more fills from the single-cell level, as governed by the pond's own rain-filling sequence) make this a good progressive source of water for something larger still.  YGTI.

You should lose a minimal amount of the original water, per stage, until you eventually have a usable amount in a large-enough reservoir.  Though it will take time, it's more evaporation-proof than trying to drain it straight into a massive reservoir, and also safe from "water crunching" floodgates, as long as you don't close them onto an overflowing lower level (in which case you've not shuffled it off to any further level).

Of course, needs preparation, and is difficult to safely (and water-conservatively) extend mid-use, which is largely why I might agree that the effort is a little disproportionate if you've got any chance that you can get any other water system set up, or have other overwhelming problems with the fortress that are likely to cause more immediate population collapses and/or tantrum spirals.

You're also well (NPI!) advised to maintain a small reservoir below another pond dedicated to dry-season/siege-time drinking purposes, so as not to deplete the one you might be building up for whatever motives you aspire to use large quantities of water for.


I'm also not sure if any of the 'traditional' water-generation techniques that I recall being used still work.  And, these days, digging a well-shaft into a flooded cavern is probably the best source of water, even given the risks and effort (and the finding of the right spot!) involved.
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 09:58:42 am »

Well...what can I say. I have four aquifers, an ocean, and those murky pools fill up faster than I can drain them due to torrential rainfalls. In the DESERT. It appears water conservation is not as critically important as water conversation.
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Not a troll, not some basement-dwelling neckbeard, but indeed a hateful, rude little person. On the internet.
I'm actually quite nice IRL, but you people have to pay the price for that.

Now stop being distracted by the rudeness, quit your accusations of trollery, and start arguing like real men!

Starver

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 10:43:48 am »

Indeed, it sounds like you might instead have to set special measures to guard against dihydrogen monoxide asphyxiation. :)
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 03:51:39 pm »

Yes...sorry I didn't mention all that, might've saved you some typing. The murky pools are really just a detail, but I didn't want to waste them...so yeah  :o

New question! What are the odds of flying building destroyers?
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Not a troll, not some basement-dwelling neckbeard, but indeed a hateful, rude little person. On the internet.
I'm actually quite nice IRL, but you people have to pay the price for that.

Now stop being distracted by the rudeness, quit your accusations of trollery, and start arguing like real men!

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 04:01:04 pm »

Too good.
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 04:26:40 pm »

Yes...sorry I didn't mention all that, might've saved you some typing. The murky pools are really just a detail, but I didn't want to waste them...so yeah  :o

New question! What are the odds of flying building destroyers?

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and dragons, as far as I know. Also, would you happen to be the same Shrugging Khan from taleworlds?
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fivex

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 04:29:52 pm »

Yes...sorry I didn't mention all that, might've saved you some typing. The murky pools are really just a detail, but I didn't want to waste them...so yeah  :o

New question! What are the odds of flying building destroyers?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and dragons, as far as I know. Also, would you happen to be the same Shrugging Khan from taleworlds?
I don't believe dragons can fly
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 04:31:38 pm »

What? Who? Waletorlds? I don't know what you're talking about. I'm totally not that raving lunatic!

Next Question! How can I organise sustainable fertilisation for my farm plots? I always seem to run out of wood within very few seasons if I try to keep up with my growers.
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Not a troll, not some basement-dwelling neckbeard, but indeed a hateful, rude little person. On the internet.
I'm actually quite nice IRL, but you people have to pay the price for that.

Now stop being distracted by the rudeness, quit your accusations of trollery, and start arguing like real men!

Gearheart

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 04:41:35 pm »

I wouldn't bother.

Fertilisation is far from important at the current time.
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ungulateman

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Re: Shrugger's Ocean Fort: Questions
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2010, 08:33:06 pm »

It's called "Proficient Grower who works by himself".

He won't be far off legendary by the second year if you're growing more than one crop (not that I ever do, plump helmets gogogogo).
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