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[Neonivek]

Actually I am under the impression that demons who have not taken a humanoid shape could very well be unintelligent, or at least too chaotic to form any sort of rational thought and are thus animalistic in nature

Yeah it isn't that the idea of the hell metal and stone is a bad idea, it is that the whole purpose of Slade in Dwarf Fortress isn't to provide the game with an extra material... It is to add a material that players cannot mine or deconstruct (ignoring the bug) thus it should be used as sparingly as possible.

Though yeah Bone works excellently. Heck just make it some sort of tough demon bone

As for FPS it isn't that tough to increase the amount of features in Hell without making a serious dent in the FPS. Anything that is static for example shouldn't harm it.

Also I wonder if there should be Hazards in hell that are similar to traps.

[Medicine Man]

I have another idea. Bone cages that contain the souls of recently deceased dwarfs. Freeing them will give family and friends a massive happy thought.

[Eagleon]

CPU & FPS

Meta-post from lurker: Remember that it's the programmer's responsibility to consider if an idea is possible given the limits of technology available. It's very easy for Toady to decide if something will be unworkable, because he knows everything that goes into his game, down to each function call for each object.

This bothers me for most games with areas for suggestions in their community - It's ok to take established performance or technical difficulties into consideration when making your own suggestions (though sometimes you might be limiting yourself this way), but I've found repeatedly that shooting down ideas of others for that reason tends to be non-productive. It can force the other person to take a defensive, instead of creative stance, and turn others that might not have a full picture of the issue against them, so that their idea gets pushed down where the developer cannot see it.

Especially in a forum format, it can serve to make threads disappear into the archives where Toady is more likely to not notice it - if something is unworkable, he can step in and say so if he wants. But otherwise, unless the idea is for a technical solution to current issues rather than a creative addition to the game, or the devs have said specifically that additions to that area will likely not be put in until a technical solution is found, IMHO it's better to keep the creativity flowing.

OT: Abandoned demonic ruins, where brief surges of order were suffused with the chaos of death and mischief, subsequently left for your dwarves to exploit if they can dare its descendents. Lots of broken arches, crude engravings, and temples to dark forces, etc. Pathetic, easily-dispached starving proto-goblin servants lurking in the shadows to go with.

[Vattic]

Some kind of plant life might be interesting, especially if it's dangerous.

[Farthing]

There's been a lot of talk of stuff like this for things like fountains of alcohol,  acid rain and other fluids. There probably won't be any spears sticking out of the ground unless they make a building of some kind that lets other races do the same thing, but it could always be filled with engravings of demons and dwarves, etc. being flayed and tortured. Rotting corpses and skeletons would be awesome.

[cog disso]

I rather like the idea that's used in Geist: The Sin-Eaters. The Underworld is ruled by beings that are ultimately True Neutral. They have rules, only said rules aren't posted anywhere, and only the dead know what they are. If you don't break the rules, the Underworld is more or less an extremely hazardous tourist zone, but if you DO break the rules, THEN the whole horde of demons appear and wipe the floor with your soul.

This could be relatively easy to implement, and would be randomly chosen at Embark by the computer. For example, the "Law of Hell" this week is "No swords shall enter," and if a dwarf appears with a sword, THEN the demons attack. It would be similar to a noble request, only it would act as a trigger only if not obeyed.

[Pilsu]

I'm not sure I care for turning The Underworld into a cave with clichés strewn about. It'd be more fitting if it was chaotic in nature; ever shifting and changing, embodying chaos in some form. Just filling it with out of place bone seems to get us nowhere. Besides, we need some way for the adamantine to regenerate. There should be some reason why we'd keep braving the depths. The sudden demon assault on breach is a bit tired as well, I'd like it much better if it was eerily quiet for unpredictable amounts of time, encouraging exploration. Any miners and troops going missing down there would generate no messages and only places within your line of sight should be visible. Anything that isn't is subject to change at any time. Imagine sending in patrols and discovering that their way back is suddenly gone.

Hell, I'd love to see the monsters themselves shift about chaotically. And for the love of Pete, remove the spittle warnings. How the hell would I know that something that no one has seen before specializes in frost breath?

[Bohandas]

I rather like the idea that's used in Geist: The Sin-Eaters. The Underworld is ruled by beings that are ultimately True Neutral. They have rules, only said rules aren't posted anywhere, and only the dead know what they are. If you don't break the rules, the Underworld is more or less an extremely hazardous tourist zone, but if you DO break the rules, THEN the whole horde of demons appear and wipe the floor with your soul.

This could be relatively easy to implement, and would be randomly chosen at Embark by the computer. For example, the "Law of Hell" this week is "No swords shall enter," and if a dwarf appears with a sword, THEN the demons attack. It would be similar to a noble request, only it would act as a trigger only if not obeyed.

I'd say that sounds a bit more like more Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil than True Neutral.

[Doomsought]

There's been a lot of talk of stuff like this for things like fountains of alcohol,  acid rain and other fluids. There probably won't be any spears sticking out of the ground unless they make a building of some kind that lets other races do the same thing, but it could always be filled with engravings of demons and dwarves, etc. being flayed and tortured. Rotting corpses and skeletons would be awesome.

spears sticking out of the ground is already a building, its under the trap menu. b>shift_t>shift_s is for Spike Trap

[Leeko]

Actually I am under the impression that demons who have not taken a humanoid shape could very well be unintelligent, or at least too chaotic to form any sort of rational thought and are thus animalistic in nature

They ascend to leadership positions in goblin civs all the time, and sometimes they appear as the liaisons of human caravans, so I'm inclined to think they have some kind of intelligence.

That said, I think the Clown Camp could use something other than said Clowns in it. I like the idea of disturbing creatures down there, like tortured souls or suffering, maimed humanoids. I guess it depends on what Toady's idea of dorf hell is like. Right now it seems kind of like a prison for the demons within.

[sebs]

How about Armok himself reigning in hell? Killable only by the most advanced dwarven civilizations whose leader will then become the new god of blood. An ultimate goal that should be very difficult and time consuming to accomplish, maybe a bit harder than a nethack ascencion.

[Urist McMick]

'Ts in the latest DF talk i believe.

[Neonivek]

Actually I am under the impression that demons who have not taken a humanoid shape could very well be unintelligent, or at least too chaotic to form any sort of rational thought and are thus animalistic in nature

They ascend to leadership positions in goblin civs all the time, and sometimes they appear as the liaisons of human caravans, so I'm inclined to think they have some kind of intelligence.

That said, I think the Clown Camp could use something other than said Clowns in it. I like the idea of disturbing creatures down there, like tortured souls or suffering, maimed humanoids. I guess it depends on what Toady's idea of dorf hell is like. Right now it seems kind of like a prison for the demons within.

Yes but only humanoid Demons actually do that

[Ø]

I'd like something more useful or even more valuable than adamantine as a reward for when you actually get all the way into hell.

[Owlbread]

I'm not sure I care for turning The Underworld into a cave with clichés strewn about. It'd be more fitting if it was chaotic in nature; ever shifting and changing, embodying chaos in some form. Just filling it with out of place bone seems to get us nowhere. Besides, we need some way for the adamantine to regenerate. There should be some reason why we'd keep braving the depths. The sudden demon assault on breach is a bit tired as well, I'd like it much better if it was eerily quiet for unpredictable amounts of time, encouraging exploration. Any miners and troops going missing down there would generate no messages and only places within your line of sight should be visible. Anything that isn't is subject to change at any time. Imagine sending in patrols and discovering that their way back is suddenly gone.

Hell, I'd love to see the monsters themselves shift about chaotically. And for the love of Pete, remove the spittle warnings. How the hell would I know that something that no one has seen before specializes in frost breath?

Just you wait until the magic arc. Then we can see the horrors that random generators can bring in hell.