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[keenerd]

This is a little idea I've had kicking around for a new way to play Dwarf Fortress as a group.

The Dwarf Fortress Dojo.

A few people take on a challenge and all grab matching embarks.  We play until reaching a certain limit.  Everyone uploads and compares forts.  Whoever best hits the goal wins, though the real point is to learn from it.  Techniques are examined and discussed, and then we take on a new challenge.

Some example "end game" limits:
Five years go by.  The first death has occurred.  Reach 100M value.  Declared mountainhome.

Some example goals:
Minimum game time.  Maximum value.  Adamantine collected.  Elves killed.  Largest obsidian (or soap) cube.  Best military*.  There are lots of permutations possible, especially if you start with a limited embark.  (Related, anyone have a seed for a dwarf-less world?  Or one where the humans/elves are already at war with you?  Both would make for excitment.) 

Naturally there would be a few rules, all based on the honor system.  No using reveal tools.  No save scumming.  No playing the embark more than once.  A large part of DF is dealing with surprises, and surprises are fun.  You are welcome to share your game as it progresses, but you might want to be a little vague about where you struck ore :-)

Challenge 1: total value at time of first death
31.13 download
Once any dwarf dies (including those brought with gobbo invaders), save your game and share the upload.

Challenge 2: dead elves and megabeasts within five years
31.14 download
Does not matter who or what kills them, just tally up the number from your units screen.


Embark details:
Default equipment and skills.
No mods.
Completely random location.
3x3, should be playable on most computers.

I would recommend reserving a post now for your game details.  Otherwise it will be difficult to follow multiple forts in the same thread.  Please post your thoughts on strategy, too.  Or ideas for the next challenge.

Welcome to the Dojo.  Strike the earth!


* This is a long term goal.  I want to make a tool that will export your entire military to Arena Mode,  where you engage other people's armies in a free for all.

[keenerd]

Here is my plan:  Maximizing wealth will either need 100% industry (probably textiles) or multiple Planepackeds.  Depending on artifacts seems too risky.  So I'll go textiles, along with a compact fort layout.

Keeping everyone alive is harder.  No solid idea how to make it foolproof, but it will involve a lot of tunnels for safe immigration.  And so many war dogs.

Of course, all this assumes quickly getting through the aquifer without casualties.  This might be a very short challenge.
Titthalstukos ("Call me Stu, dammit!") looked across the barren waste.  The occasional acacia stood among the scorched grass.
"They said there would be water, lots of water.  There is not even wet mud at the bottom the the dry ponds!"  He grumbled about the mistake of bringing two fish workers.  A hoard of chimpanzes could be heard in the distance.
"Doesn't seem to be much in the way of plants for them to eat.  Unless they are car..."  Stu stopped in mid sentence.  No need to worry his fellow dwarfs.
"Tear down that wagon and get everything inside now!"
1051
Spring - Channeled out a safe zone.  Surface farm growing prickle berries.  Carved out a cave in device.  Still no rock for mechanisms though, and no one volunteered to sacrifice themselves.
Summer - Trade depot up.  Pumped through the aquifer, seems there is a second layer.
Autumn - Slowly enlarging the dry area.  Dwarfs were not meant to play in the water.  Seriously considering clear cutting the surface and building a blasted human hut.  Dwarven traders arrived!  Some salvation, but at the expense of our honor.  The only item of value we have to trade is our anvil.  These are dark times indeed.
Winter - No one else is working.  I pump and I pump until my hands bleed and yet still no one goes into the pit to finish the job!
1052
Spring - Starting over.  I should feel bad for all the wood wasted in the first attempt, but the pointy ears do not seem to be around.  17 migrants!  More hands for the pumps.
Summer - Disaster.  A migrant gem setter has gone moody.  A few more migrants have arrived.  They think this will be their tomb.  It's more like a shallow grave, really.

And in less than a season, the gem setter went insane.  Usually they last two.  Did not think to wall him in, as he did not seem the violent sort.  Killed a cat and spent a day chasing a woodcutter around.  It did not end well for the gem setter.

On the 11th of Malachite 1052, Getsetter Kabcerol was struck down.  The fort had created a small but unknown amount of wealth as a broker had not yet been appointed.  We'll round this number down to zero dwarfbucks.
End save: http://kmkeen.com/tmp/df-dojo-01-keenerd.zip
The bar is set.  Can you produce more than zero?  :-)

[Eduren]

Reserved for my entry.

Will there be a time limit?

This post is now a monument to my laziness.

[keenerd]

Will there be a time limit?

Nah.  It is just for fun, the points don't matter.  Take all the time you want.  I'm only getting 50 FPS on embark, so maybe it'll be a while :-)

[Duriel]

Reserved spot for log entries.

From the journal of 'Duriel' Titthalstukos:

1st Granite, Early Spring:

We have arrived. The ponds are dry, so we don't have surface water for irrigation.

15th Granite, Early Spring:

Atír, our miner found an aquifer. We are working on breaching the aquifer. Also, the aquifer will provide the water we need for irrigation.

4th Slate, Mid-Spring:

The pump is finished, and we are ready to penetrate the aquifer.

15th Slate, Mid-Spring:

The first attempt to penetrate the aquifer was a failure, as water flowed in too fast.

6th Galena, Late Summer:

Another attempt, another failure. We are also running low on drinks and food. I hope the caravan arrives soon...

The farm is now built.

1st Timber, Late Autumn:

The caravan should be here soon. And some progress has been made in penetrating the aquifer, this time using cave-ins.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

5th Timber, Late Autumn:

Success! The first aquifer layer has been breached. Though I know there is yet another layer to be penetrated.

15th Timber, Late Autumn:

The second aquifer layer will be breached soon. I really hope the caravan arrives in time...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

16th Timber, Late Autumn:

Unfortunately, as Atír the miner deconstructed the critical support to pierce the aquifer, the cave-in sucked her in and she did not survive the landing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Atír Fathkathil, Miner, died after colliding with an obstacle on 16th Timber in 1051.

Total wealth: UNKNOWN

Man, I hate non-freezing aquifers. The last attempt was going well, until I had a stroke of bad luck and caused the death of the miner. Hmm, maybe I could have prevented that.

Also, why nobody had the Appraisal skill? It would have made things easier.

[barconis]

[Reserved for log entries]

First order of business was to get as much as possible underground and away from this terrible sun. Unfortunately, while all the water aboveground has dried up, there is an aquifer close to the surface. We're going to try to drop a level of soil into it to see if that will seal it and allow us to move through into the rock below. Summer arrives and we're still digging away.

We finally excavated for dropping the roof on the aquifer, but the miner I had assigned to a burrow bordering the last square wouldn't dig until I extended the burrow onto the square to be dug. At which point he ran out to the burrow, over the bit of land onto the suspended slab (outside the burrow he was assigned to), dug out the square, and fell with the slab. Miraculously, he was completely unharmed. There is another layer of aquifer, however, which we need to pump out. One puimp isn't enough, so a second one has been ordered. The idiot carpenter, on break, stood and watched other dwarfs pump furiously on the single pump before eventually wandering off to sleep without finishing the second pump.

In summer, some migrants arrived, knowing this place could be thier tomb. In mid-autumn, some more trickled in. One of the arrivals is a self-described "Thief"; I hope he knows how to do an honest day's work, but I'm not very hopeful. [Bug in .13; he can't be assigned any labor, there are no available jobs he can do.] Down below, we're still getting the knack of walling off part of an aquifer. I really hope it's only two layers deep, otherwise all this work has been for nothing.

Shortly after the dwarven caravan arrived, we finished walling off the water and dug a stairway down into... dry stone. We traded some wooden crafts for assorted items; not worth much, but at least it was something.

I worry about every little thing our dwarves do -- so many things can be fatal out here. The fish cleaner turns out to be a legendary lasher, but I don't dare make him a soldier because, well, we don't have any whips... but really, soldiering kills! I've ordered the miners to start digging a trench all around the fort so that we can control who comes in and out. I hope we can save the poor doomed migrants. We've lasted here one full year.

[shivoc]

i like the idea, so i gave it a try...

haven't broken through a 2 level aquifer before, so it's a good reason to finally do that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spring 1051
The embark site seemed pretty calm, all surface water is gone but that shouldn't pose much of a problem after breaching the aquifer.
Since there is no building material, first order is to cut wood and dig down to see how far down we get.
After finding the Aquifer, dig out some rooms in the soil to store food and gather plants from the surface... no need to build farms with that much food ready available.
Next carve out some space to start pumping out the aquifer, building wooden walls to keep the water out.
By end of Spring the aquifer level is walled off.

Summer 1051
After pumping out the walled off area, it becomes apparent that the walled off area is to small to get through the second aquifer level, no room left for pumps.
Change of plans, we have enough soil above the dug out aquifer level, so next try cave in the ceiling to fill the newly dug out aquifer level.
Some migrant arrive just in time to help with hauling all the stuff from the wagon inside so the area for the cave-in is clear.
dug out to much of the soil layer so the cave in just muddies the aquifer instead of plugging the hole.

the cave in method still seems a lot faster than pumping out a bigger area, so i start digging out a new area for the next try.
At some point i notice that the dwarfs try to give water to someone but can find any water... somehow they don like the aquifer water and it seems i don't have alcohol but 2 unconscious dwarfs in the beds.
So i start building a still, no wonder the first try didn't succeed if the dwarfs were sober when planning it.

Finally i can drop the first ring into the aquifer to confirm that this plan should work out.

Autumn 1051
Some more migrants arrive, food reserves are low so most of them get sent to gather more plants.
The carpenter gets a fey mood, claims the carpenter shop and babbles something about rock bars and logs of wood, we have plenty of wood, but no stone at all, so time to get the aquifer finished.
The second ring gets dropped down and after draining the excess water we finally can dig deeper again.
Seems that digging the level below the aquifer is dangerous as well, had a mining tunnel fill with water, the miner did get out fast enough though.
Found some stones and tetrahedrite so start with making rock blocks, find out that he really wants bars, so build wood furnace and smelter, make some copper bars and he starts to work.
The outpost liaison arrives with the caravan, so i build a trade depot though we still don have stuff to trade.

Winter 1051
The carpenter finishes his artifact, a nice bed, time to dig some rooms for the dwarfs so i can use it.
Traded one of the axes and some wine for leather and food, the expedition leader now is an adequate appraiser.
Turns out the bed is 4800 dwarf bucks worth, more than half of my total wealth (8700 at that point).
Shortly after the caravan leaves, a miner succumbs to infection, guess he must have been hurt by one of the cave ins.

will try to upload the overview screen for the end somewhere.

edit: end screen

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[keenerd]

Thoughts on future challenges?  Feels like this first one got off to a rought start.

[JAFANZ]

Yeah:
Default equipment and skills.
No mods.
Completely random location.
It seems the RNG god hates us; a tropical shrubland with double (possibly salty) aquifer.
3x3, should be playable on most computers.

1) Either solicit input for an Embark Profile, or let each player customise their own.
2) Allow use of Graphics Packs or the Lazy Newb Pack(s).
3) If it's supposed to be edumacational, Pick an embark location (& maybe just provide the World Gen Params & Embark Screenshot as being a quicker/easier Download).
4) I agree with 3x3, or maybe even 2x2 for an embark with significant depth.
5) Again, being as learning is a goal, start with more points (<2500 IMO).
6) Make sure all the biomes are Low Savagery (Serene, Calm, or Sinister).

Actual Goal suggestions:
1) Colonise a Cavern.
2) Annihilate a siege from each race.
3) Create an Industry (Textiles?) & make DB$99k (no more) off it. [or DB$1k less than the Titan trigger whatever that's set to]
4) Enslave a tribe of Tigermen. (ok, I'm not sure this can actually be done without a DM, as I haven't actually encountered any yet).

[Urist Imiknorris]

I like the colonize a cavern idea.

[kilakan]

I'm in on the first one, will post success here.  Cavern sounds fun, maybe make it a savage area as a bonus?
edit* What version is this, it doesn't work with 3.12

[TurkeyXIII]

Thoughts on future challenges?  Feels like this first one got off to a rought start.

What're you talking about?  Looked like a resounding success to me

[keenerd]

1) Either solicit input for an Embark Profile, or let each player customise their own.
2) Allow use of Graphics Packs or the Lazy Newb Pack(s).
3) If it's supposed to be edumacational, Pick an embark location (& maybe just provide the World Gen Params & Embark Screenshot as being a quicker/easier Download).
4) I agree with 3x3, or maybe even 2x2 for an embark with significant depth.
5) Again, being as learning is a goal, start with more points (<2500 IMO).
6) Make sure all the biomes are Low Savagery (Serene, Calm, or Sinister).

When I said "no mods" I meant things like Orcs or RAW hacks.  Play the save however you want.  (Unless you have to gen a world just for those?  Ugh.)

"Educational" means "outside your comfort zone".  Savage biomes add to this, as does no skill points.  Heck, I'd like to do one where you start with nothing but the dismantled wagon, trading raw meat and berries until you can buy a pick.  Or just one pick and a very hostile environment.  Brevity and intensity are features.

2x2 sounds like a good idea.  I was dogging at 20 fps with 31 dwarfs.

Actual Goal suggestions:
1) Colonise a Cavern.
2) Annihilate a siege from each race.
3) Create an Industry (Textiles?) & make DB$99k (no more) off it. [or DB$1k less than the Titan trigger whatever that's set to]
4) Enslave a tribe of Tigermen. (ok, I'm not sure this can actually be done without a DM, as I haven't actually encountered any yet).

Two issues:  Those are pass/fail.  Or depending on your experience, laughably easy / hopelessly impossible.  Not very good for learning.  The minimum should be fall-down-a-hole simple, the max should be without limit.

Second, none of those are particularly unusual on their own.  Most happen inadvertently in a normal decadent fort.  A challenge has two elements: a goal and a limit that are at odds with each other.  Goal X before limit Y.  The combination is more fun than the sum of its parts.


On another note, I'm playing the first challenge a few more times.  Since I still don't know anything about the caverns or veins, it doesn't feel too dirty.  Won't post anything about the games, unless I find a completely safe means of cave-in.

[JAFANZ]

"Educational" means "outside your comfort zone".  Savage biomes add to this, as does no skill points.  Heck, I'd like to do one where you start with nothing but the dismantled wagon, trading raw meat and berries until you can buy a pick.  Or just one pick and a very hostile environment.  Brevity and intensity are features.

I think I'd insist on a minimum of 1 Malachite or Native Copper stone to go with the otherwise bare wagon & lack of skills (& an embark that lets you have the wagon, otherwise 1 log & 1 copper ore would be a minimum I suppose).

Won't post anything about the games, unless I find a completely safe means of cave-in.

Supports + Levers?

[shivoc]

Won't post anything about the games, unless I find a completely safe means of cave-in.

Supports + Levers?

levers without stone? you could always wait for the first caravan, but that might be to late for your first mood, which meant the end of one of the forts due to the no dead dwarf rule...


depending on the target audience, challenges could also focus on individual aspects of the game like building military, starting with a basic fort which can sustain itself so it doesn't distract as much from the main focus.
i would like to see some more details about how different people approach different aspects of the game, and it could be an incentive to try something new instead of building the same way.

some ideas could be defending a fort only by traps (no cage traps and military) or military only, always having an open way into the fort, comparing fort layouts and success rates after the first sieges...
other things could include unusual embark sites without the usual resources (i.e. embarking on a frozen ocean with a few picks and food to last the first season), to learn something doesn't mean the challenge has to be hard, it just needs to be different from the stuff you usually do.

but to keep the games manageable, they shouldn't last for more than a year or 2, better to have a basic fort as starting point than to have everyone go through the starting buildup again before being able to tackle the real challenge (unless that's part of the challenge i.e. specific embark locations/loadouts)