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[Zai]

Should I have received a second pm?
I am confused.

ORG: When did you receive your first PM from Ed?

What was the 2nd PM about? Was it just telling you your role for this iteration?

Somebody's (Zai) scum.

And somebody's not understanding what I'm getting at: Townies didn't receive role PMs at all in this iteration.

...Oh wait. I think I misread what he was saying. I thought he was saying "was I supposed to have gotten this 2nd PM?" But it would appear he was saying "am I supposed to receive a 2nd PM at some point? I didn't get one."

I apologize for the mixup.

[webadict]

Should I have received a second pm?
I am confused.

ORG: When did you receive your first PM from Ed?

What was the 2nd PM about? Was it just telling you your role for this iteration?

Somebody's (Zai) scum.

And somebody's not understanding what I'm getting at: Townies didn't receive role PMs at all in this iteration.

...Oh wait. I think I misread what he was saying. I thought he was saying "was I supposed to have gotten this 2nd PM?" But it would appear he was saying "am I supposed to receive a 2nd PM at some point? I didn't get one."

I apologize for the mixup.

Except that each of those explanation wouldn't account for FoSing Org, since he was complaining about NOT getting a 2nd PM...

[Zai]

Which is what I did not understand previously. And that was covered by the one where I realized what he was talking about.

[Tack]

Sorry, guys, fell asleep at the wheel. Seems I've got a lot to catch up on.

I typed out some responses to Zai and Josh's posts, but I felt like I was getting too tired to make sense, so I dropped it. So here's my response now. It's the first day, and by rule of chance, there's going to be a townie lynching. As much as I'm suspicious of Zai and Vector, who has yet to show her face for an extended period of time, everyone else is suspicious of everyone else, and at day end we're just going to have to get on a bandwagon and have a townie lynched. And if they roll mafia, then Awesome. But, to answer my question to Josh, the logic to my fatalistic fallacy is this- I know my role as the townie Chaff. Everyone else on this board are better players than me, and will make better calls in the later rounds. And yes, while this is pretty much like resigning myself to be first-day lynched, it's also a good defence if I'm town, because my tune isn't going to change if I've got an hour left and everyone about to lynch me.
Anyway:

Where's Dak's Bible? I like how you didn't actually answer the fucking question, Tack.

Well here you go then:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).


Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"


Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.

If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:


Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true motives.  Pull more from them.  DON'T LET GO!  Even if the town ignores you or even votes for you because of it, DO IT ANYWAY!  Push, push, PUSH, ***PUSH*** until you have solid proof of what they are.

If you can't find enough to prove them and run out of things to say, check one more time to see if you still feel he's scum, then pull back, look at others (Step 2) but be ready to go back to them at any time.  If your convinced and ready to kill them, Step 4

Step 4: Final step.  It's time to convince the town.  Show what you have.  Push the target so they show more scumminess.  Attack, but do it only to demonstrate to the town what you KNOW is true.  You aren't trying to argue with the mafia anymore.. you are trying to show the town why you are right and Mr.Mafia MUST be lynched.  If you are at this point, only 3 things can happen:

1.  The scum is lynched.
2. You are given so much information that you become CONVINCED that the target is town. (no less than CONVINCED.. doubt, maybe, 'perhaps' won't due)
3. You are dead.



That's how a basic scumhunt is done.  One last note on doubt:

Doubt is something that's ok to have but UGLY to show.  If you doubt or have second thoughts, DON'T DISPLAY IT.  If you think "He looks passive but I don't know..."  you SAY "You scum!  Stop being passive!!!"  If you think "He may have a good reason to attack guy really." say "Give me your reasons and stop being vague."

Doubt is something for yourself.  When you have doubt, go back and see if your original ideas still hold up.  If they do or if you find yourself saying "I'm not sure" then go back to the attack until you are sure.  This ain't the USA: we play by Guilty until Proven Innocent here.  Unless you can get yourself to believe they may be honest, keep the attack.

So doubt is ok to have if used right.. but the town does NOT need to hear it.  If you doubt, accuse anyway as if you know.  If you wonder, accuse as if you know it.  If you know the answer, ASK ANYWAY and let THEM answer.  Make them convince you they are town: don't do the job for them.


And that's scumhunting in a nutshell.  Everyone, try to figure out what Step you are on and work accordingly.  Note that you should be almost done Step 1 by the end of Day 1 (though some may be higher by then).  If you aren't, keep random voting and consider an Extension.

If you don't know WHAT you are.. you're in Step 1.  Get to random voting.

Last note: 'Not voting' should only be done when you are doing a quick look over everyone's past.  Otherwise, your vote and your attention should always be on SOMEONE, even if it is at random.

It's best for a lynch to be for a reason reason.. but it's better for someone to be lynched randomly than for no lynch to occur at all.

Then be offensive you goddamned twat. If this is how you play town, you still have quite a bit to learn.

Righto.

You're either a really shitty townie, or a really shitty mafia.
Therefore- You're a really shitty player.

That wasn't WIFOM, dumbass. Get a brief refresher course on it if you need to. (Hint: You need to.) All you did was passively insult me, with sarcasm. No WIFOM was involved.

Oh, I'm sorry. Let me point it out to you. If you're a good enough player that you know you shouldn't be doing those hijinks, then it can't be a scumtell because you know what you're doing. But if you know that you can get away with it, then as a scum you could do it. But then you'd know that I'd think you're scum because you're acting unlike your town, but you say that your town is unreliable, and as an experienced player, I should learn not to rely on meta, but if you're scum, then you'd want me to think that so you can continue being irrational and defensive.
Sounds like something straight out of the Princess Bride, dumbass.


Also, I will agree with what you see on Elegy[/quote]. But so far he just seems like an inexperienced player.

[webadict]

Which is what I did not understand previously. And that was covered by the one where I realized what he was talking about.

Sounds like a scumslip to me.

[Tack]

Curses on my tagfails.

I'm still suspicious of Zai, though. To be honest, I think if you don't get lynched by the end of today, it'll only be because more people are voting for me.

[Lonewolf I]

I typed out some responses to Zai and Josh's posts, but I felt like I was getting too tired to make sense, so I dropped it. So here's my response now. It's the first day, and by rule of chance, there's going to be a townie lynching. As much as I'm suspicious of Zai and Vector, who has yet to show her face for an extended period of time, everyone else is suspicious of everyone else, and at day end we're just going to have to get on a bandwagon and have a townie lynched. And if they roll mafia, then Awesome. But, to answer my question to Josh, the logic to my fatalistic fallacy is this- I know my role as the townie Chaff. Everyone else on this board are better players than me, and will make better calls in the later rounds. And yes, while this is pretty much like resigning myself to be first-day lynched, it's also a good defence if I'm town, because my tune isn't going to change if I've got an hour left and everyone about to lynch me.

No townie is chaff.  We need all the votes we can get and all the pressure and scumhunters we can muster to find scum.  It doesn't matter how skilled you are, or if a more experienced player dies.  If they're scummy, lynch them.  If it looks like you're going to die, keep your guns blazing so that when you flip town we can pick up where you left off.  Never give up.  Never surrender.

That wasn't WIFOM, dumbass. Get a brief refresher course on it if you need to. (Hint: You need to.) All you did was passively insult me, with sarcasm. No WIFOM was involved.

Oh, I'm sorry. Let me point it out to you. If you're a good enough player that you know you shouldn't be doing those hijinks, then it can't be a scumtell because you know what you're doing. But if you know that you can get away with it, then as a scum you could do it. But then you'd know that I'd think you're scum because you're acting unlike your town, but you say that your town is unreliable, and as an experienced player, I should learn not to rely on meta, but if you're scum, then you'd want me to think that so you can continue being irrational and defensive.
Sounds like something straight out of the Princess Bride, dumbass.

You're right.  That is WIFOM.  Now why are you knowingly and deliberately serving it to the town?

Also, I will agree with what you see on Elegy. But so far he just seems like an inexperienced player.

No attack on Elegy?  You're buddying Zai to get him off your back?  Are you serious?

Curses on my tagfails.

I'm still suspicious of Zai, though. To be honest, I think if you don't get lynched by the end of today, it'll only be because more people are voting for me.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

[Tack]

First of all, Lonewolf, The last two quotes don't make sense. I'm not Buddying Zai, I'm voting for him to get lynched. I'm just accepting his opinion on Elegy.

The first quote- Simple. I'm going to keep accusing the people I think are scum. That way if I get lynched, you can pick up where I left off. But I'm not going to waste people's time.

Second quote: I realised it was WIFOM, so I dropped it, as I said back there.

Are you actually reading anything we're saying?

[Elegy]

Okay, okay I get it.

b]Mr. Person[/b], there have been others who haven't been ready to commit to saying somebody is scummy or not. I.E. Webadict a few posts back. Why single me out? It would be fairly easy for scum to try to lynch a new player on day one.

Speaking of, throwing a second vote on so soon, Zai?

Tack, you are also under a lot of heat so far, throwing a blue "vote" my way without any reason only adds to your already scummy behavior. Explain your reasoning. Or don't, scum.

[Vector]

Speaking of, throwing a second vote on so soon, Zai?

Tack, you are also under a lot of heat so far, throwing a blue "vote" my way without any reason only adds to your already scummy behavior. Explain your reasoning. Or don't, scum.

Hypocrisy and OMGUS.

Scumbag.

[webadict]

First of all, Lonewolf, The last two quotes don't make sense. I'm not Buddying Zai, I'm voting for him to get lynched. I'm just accepting his opinion on Elegy.

The first quote- Simple. I'm going to keep accusing the people I think are scum. That way if I get lynched, you can pick up where I left off. But I'm not going to waste people's time.

Second quote: I realised it was WIFOM, so I dropped it, as I said back there.

Are you actually reading anything we're saying?

OMGUS, I see. The last posts do make sense. I mean, are you suggesting that Zai is bussing his partner?

Okay, okay I get it.

b]Mr. Person[/b], there have been others who haven't been ready to commit to saying somebody is scummy or not. I.E. Webadict a few posts back. Why single me out? It would be fairly easy for scum to try to lynch a new player on day one.

Speaking of, throwing a second vote on so soon, Zai?

Tack, you are also under a lot of heat so far, throwing a blue "vote" my way without any reason only adds to your already scummy behavior. Explain your reasoning. Or don't, scum.

Um, FoSing is NOT voting. Also, you're doing the equivalent of freaking out by OMGUSing for him voting you.

Speaking of, throwing a second vote on so soon, Zai?

Tack, you are also under a lot of heat so far, throwing a blue "vote" my way without any reason only adds to your already scummy behavior. Explain your reasoning. Or don't, scum.

Hypocrisy and OMGUS.

Scumbag.

DON'T NINJA ME!

[Vector]

CONDENSE YOUR WRITING THEN :I

[Zai]

And yes, while this is pretty much like resigning myself to be first-day lynched, it's also a good defence if I'm town, because my tune isn't going to change if I've got an hour left and everyone about to lynch me.

NO IT IS NOT. I LITERALLY WANT TO SHAKE YOU UNTIL THAT GETS INTO YOUR THICK SKULL. Y'know what a good defense is? DEFENDING YOURSELF. Who woulda thunk it?

Where's Dak's Bible? I like how you didn't actually answer the fucking question, Tack.

Well here you go then: [snip to make posting easier]

You STILL haven't answered my original fucking question. Since you oh so willfully got rid of it from the quote, here it is again:

2) How is being aggressive anti-town?

NOW ANSWER IT.

You're either a really shitty townie, or a really shitty mafia.
Therefore- You're a really shitty player.

Speak for yourself, scumshit. You're the one who seems like you want to get lynched.

That wasn't WIFOM, dumbass. Get a brief refresher course on it if you need to. (Hint: You need to.) All you did was passively insult me, with sarcasm. No WIFOM was involved.

Oh, I'm sorry. Let me point it out to you. If you're a good enough player that you know you shouldn't be doing those hijinks, then it can't be a scumtell because you know what you're doing. But if you know that you can get away with it, then as a scum you could do it. But then you'd know that I'd think you're scum because you're acting unlike your town, but you say that your town is unreliable, and as an experienced player, I should learn not to rely on meta, but if you're scum, then you'd want me to think that so you can continue being irrational and defensive.
Sounds like something straight out of the Princess Bride, dumbass.

And once again, you get rid of the relevant quote, forcing others to track back through the thread or else just take your word for it. Here the line went in its full glory had it not been so rudely separated:

Well, Zai, I bow to your greater knowledge. But it's mostly due to the fact that you've been playing long enough that you shouldn't be so bad a player that you'd be overly defensive if you were scum.

5) What happened to me being too much of a longtime player to be overly defensive as scum? You seem to have thrown that right out the window.

Oh, that was a mixture of sarcasm and WIFOM. Don't take it personally.

That wasn't WIFOM, dumbass. Get a brief refresher course on it if you need to. (Hint: You need to.) All you did was passively insult me, with sarcasm. No WIFOM was involved.

Now then. You said in that last quote of yours in this quote-nest that that was a mixture of sarcasm and WIFOM. Well, what was "that"? Looking back all I can see is that quote you liked to leave out, saying how experienced I am. You basically said I've been playing long enough that I wouldn't be making newbie mistakes like being overly defensive. Now we move onto your latest post. (See quote above this quote-nest)
In that, all you're saying is that I'm telling people not to rely on perceived meta. Which is true. But the way you're going about saying it is completely false. You say that if a person is a good enough player that they know not to make newbscum mistakes, then it can't be a scumtell because they'd know what they're doing. Right off the bat, you're wrong. Then you go on to say that if a person knows they can get away with making newbscum mistakes, then they could do so as scum? Now, what the hell would be the point of the point of doing that?
Now you go into trying to make this relevant to me. You say that since I am making newbscum mistakes, which I don't do as town,  I would know you would think I am scum. But to prevent(?) you from catching on to me, I say meta shouldn't be relied upon (the part where I talk about meta is the only part you got right; you don't even get the reasoning right, for fuck's sake), but you say since you think I'm scum, I'd want you to think that so...I can be irrational and defensive. (It's funny how you keep bringing up me being irrational, while mentioning nothing of yourself). Now that is just stupid, but I suppose it's WIFOM. However, it's WIFOM you inflicted on yourself on "my" behalf.
Okay, now that we have that out of the way, let's go BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL QUOTE WHERE YOU SAID YOU USED WIFOM:

Well, Zai, I bow to your greater knowledge. But it's mostly due to the fact that you've been playing long enough that you shouldn't be so bad a player that you'd be overly defensive if you were scum.

...You're still only saying that because I've been playing for so long, I shouldn't be so defensive as scum.

Also, I will agree with what you see on Elegy. But so far he just seems like an inexperienced player.

In other words, just like you.

TACK: Have you read the early Paranormals?

And Web, "hear" whatever you'd like into it. That doesn't mean it's there. What that was was a misunderstanding. Those happen a lot with Org. Perhaps you've noticed?

And fuck you guys. Making new post for the stuff that ninjaed me.

[Org]

Zai.

[Lonewolf I]

First of all, Lonewolf, The last two quotes don't make sense. I'm not Buddying Zai, I'm voting for him to get lynched. I'm just accepting his opinion on Elegy.

Your doing so without offering further evidence of Elegy's scumminess constitutes buddying.  You're agreeing with him without reason.
The last quote is to point out that that particular post was completely pointless.

The first quote- Simple. I'm going to keep accusing the people I think are scum. That way if I get lynched, you can pick up where I left off. But I'm not going to waste people's time.

Good.  Stop mentioning that you're going to die.  It's a waste of words that could be used to attack.

Second quote: I realised it was WIFOM, so I dropped it, as I said back there.

Are you actually reading anything we're saying?

Yet you still posted it, in spite of realizing it was WIFOM.  On top of that, none of your last three posts have furthered your case against Zai at all, yet you still claim to be attacking him.

Pandarsenic - It's been all day, get your butt back in here.