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[JoshuaFH]

For the present time and being, I want to issue an apology in advance, because in the next two hours, I'm getting on a bus and I won't be able to touch a computer for the next 48 hours atleast. My schedule will lighten up from there, but this point will be my most inactive. I'm sorry in advance.

I have good news for you though, Zai, I woke up today, and I have a most undeniable HUNCH... if you will. I'm feeling that, sometime in the future, we're going to argue. I don't know over what yet, but let me assure you, that at some point, you're gonna finally get your "Arguing with Josh" jollies off.

My selected scum team was Vector and Webadict.

Webadict because he really is a competent player, and Vector because I distinctly remember her as being the careful, deliberate type, who was the mentor of Dakarian, the human Wall-of-text himself.

I also didn't care who was on my scumteam, so I did RNG and threw out Joshua and Person, and I was like, "I can deal with that."

Webadict's also the best liar I know, so I'm not inclined to believe him when he says that he RNG'd for the win. If I may ask WA, what is your IDEAL scumteam, rather than this random number crap?

Also, let's see...

Tack you fail at color voting forever, and you're scum.

[Zai]

Alright, [color]Zai[/color], I think you're being too defensive to be town.
If you are being town, you're being way too over-aggressive to be helping your own team.
So far, your coherence has gone way under, and you're also telling us that we shouldn't believe your meta because you say it's wrong. Either way, you're simply attracting attention to yourself- again, not helping your team, if you are town.
Seriously.

1) "If [I am] being town." How does this make sense? I'm either town or I'm not. Get it together and get back to me.
2) How is being aggressive anti-town? I don't want Vector answering this (who first said I was over-aggressive), I want you. 'Cause it looks like you just stole that line from her after a while.
3) You say my coherence has "gone under." How so?
4) I agree, attracting attention to oneself is bad. But it also wouldn't help my team if I was scum, unless I just really really really wanted to be bussed this early on, which is a terrible fucking idea. I really don't see why you're even including that in a list of why I'm allegedly scum, as it's bad no matter what side I'm on; it's even worse for scum due to smaller numbers.

Well, Zai, I bow to your greater knowledge. But it's mostly due to the fact that you've been playing long enough that you shouldn't be so bad a player that you'd be overly defensive if you were scum.

5) What happened to me being too much of a longtime player to be overly defensive as scum? You seem to have thrown that right out the window.

[Tack]

That was a fail vote. To correct my error, I'm voting for Zai now.

But anyway, The fact is, Townies have nothing to fear, and therefore I really won't bother making a case for myself. 9 out of 10 of first day lynches are town anyway, So if I can take the hit as the (second) least experienced player here, then I'll be closer to having a win for the team- or, I won't be making it easy for scum by having a good player lynched.

[Zai]

But anyway, The fact is, Townies have nothing to fear, and therefore I really won't bother making a case for myself. 9 out of 10 of first day lynches are town anyway, So if I can take the hit as the (second) least experienced player here, then I'll be closer to having a win for the team- or, I won't be making it easy for scum by having a good player lynched.

...Dude.

...What?

Do not fear death =/= Do not discourage wasting lynches.

[JoshuaFH]

That was a fail vote. To correct my error, I'm voting for Zai now.

But anyway, The fact is, Townies have nothing to fear, and therefore I really won't bother making a case for myself. 9 out of 10 of first day lynches are town anyway, So if I can take the hit as the (second) least experienced player here, then I'll be closer to having a win for the team- or, I won't be making it easy for scum by having a good player lynched.

How can you consider this fatalist fallacy logical at all?

[webadict]

For the present time and being, I want to issue an apology in advance, because in the next two hours, I'm getting on a bus and I won't be able to touch a computer for the next 48 hours atleast. My schedule will lighten up from there, but this point will be my most inactive. I'm sorry in advance.

I have good news for you though, Zai, I woke up today, and I have a most undeniable HUNCH... if you will. I'm feeling that, sometime in the future, we're going to argue. I don't know over what yet, but let me assure you, that at some point, you're gonna finally get your "Arguing with Josh" jollies off.

My selected scum team was Vector and Webadict.

Webadict because he really is a competent player, and Vector because I distinctly remember her as being the careful, deliberate type, who was the mentor of Dakarian, the human Wall-of-text himself.

I also didn't care who was on my scumteam, so I did RNG and threw out Joshua and Person, and I was like, "I can deal with that."

Webadict's also the best liar I know, so I'm not inclined to believe him when he says that he RNG'd for the win. If I may ask WA, what is your IDEAL scumteam, rather than this random number crap?

See, but not only would I not lie as Town OR Mafioso (Because if I were the Godfather, I'd have to lie, I mean, come on), that's exactly what I did. There wasn't anything to it. Plus, I wouldn't've accepted anything too bad. But, to say I'm lying is either you saying I'm scum, or you saying YOU'RE scum, because I'm not going to risk lying in a game where lying brings nothing to the Town, which you'd have to think is acceptable if you still think I'm town.

And, if it matters, my ideal scumteam is three of me. Seeing as how that's a very difficult team to find, I went with the RNG. It did a good job. You make it seem like people preform at their absolute best all of the time. Well, sometimes they don't. Nothing wrong with that, but that's why I'm not going to be like, "Oh, ToonyMan is crazy, so I'll pick him, and Pandarsenic won a couple of games as scum, so him too." So, I'd rather let randomness pick an good team then my own bias pick a great team in theory. because we all know SOMETHING is gonna go wrong.

[Tack]

Right, time to give some 'A' to your 'Q'.

1) "If [I am] being town." How does this make sense? I'm either town or I'm not. Get it together and get back to me.

Zai, Surely You should know that there are no certainties in this game. My point was, if you are town, you're not doing any favors for us. Also- the fact that you're stooping to jumping on phrasing errors, that seems a bit jumpy to me.

2) How is being aggressive anti-town? I don't want Vector answering this (who first said I was over-aggressive), I want you. 'Cause it looks like you just stole that line from her after a while.

Because, to be honest, it looks like you pulled this entire mafia game out of Dakaran's bible. Which is great, I guess, but after having Vester point the finger at you, I decided to look at some of your previous games and, you were in fact a lot more mellow as town. And while you can claim that your meta is innaccurate and out of date, the way you're pouncing on me for declaiming you has the bitter hint of OMGUS to it.

3) You say my coherence has "gone under." How so?

You're not making sense. Maybe I'm over-tired, maybe you're over-tired, but either way, I'm not reading much from you.

4) I agree, attracting attention to oneself is bad. But it also wouldn't help my team if I was scum, unless I just really really really wanted to be bussed this early on, which is a terrible fucking idea. I really don't see why you're even including that in a list of why I'm allegedly scum, as it's bad no matter what side I'm on; it's even worse for scum due to smaller numbers.

I really don't know what I can say to this without being offensive.

5) What happened to me being too much of a longtime player to be overly defensive as scum? You seem to have thrown that right out the window.

Oh, that was a mixture of sarcasm and WIFOM. Don't take it personally.


Well, I'm just going to throw this straight up, and deal with Ninja-posts later.

[JoshuaFH]

For the present time and being, I want to issue an apology in advance, because in the next two hours, I'm getting on a bus and I won't be able to touch a computer for the next 48 hours atleast. My schedule will lighten up from there, but this point will be my most inactive. I'm sorry in advance.

I have good news for you though, Zai, I woke up today, and I have a most undeniable HUNCH... if you will. I'm feeling that, sometime in the future, we're going to argue. I don't know over what yet, but let me assure you, that at some point, you're gonna finally get your "Arguing with Josh" jollies off.

My selected scum team was Vector and Webadict.

Webadict because he really is a competent player, and Vector because I distinctly remember her as being the careful, deliberate type, who was the mentor of Dakarian, the human Wall-of-text himself.

I also didn't care who was on my scumteam, so I did RNG and threw out Joshua and Person, and I was like, "I can deal with that."

Webadict's also the best liar I know, so I'm not inclined to believe him when he says that he RNG'd for the win. If I may ask WA, what is your IDEAL scumteam, rather than this random number crap?

See, but not only would I not lie as Town OR Mafioso (Because if I were the Godfather, I'd have to lie, I mean, come on), that's exactly what I did. There wasn't anything to it. Plus, I wouldn't've accepted anything too bad. But, to say I'm lying is either you saying I'm scum, or you saying YOU'RE scum, because I'm not going to risk lying in a game where lying brings nothing to the Town, which you'd have to think is acceptable if you still think I'm town.

And, if it matters, my ideal scumteam is three of me. Seeing as how that's a very difficult team to find, I went with the RNG. It did a good job. You make it seem like people preform at their absolute best all of the time. Well, sometimes they don't. Nothing wrong with that, but that's why I'm not going to be like, "Oh, ToonyMan is crazy, so I'll pick him, and Pandarsenic won a couple of games as scum, so him too." So, I'd rather let randomness pick an good team then my own bias pick a great team in theory. because we all know SOMETHING is gonna go wrong.

I'm so happy, like really truly happy, that you still take my pithy little questions so seriously. Of course, I was merely entertaining this possibility of liar-ocity, but really, I personally see looking for 'lies' in ones scum choices to be pure bull anyhow. It's all good for pedantic backbreaking and teethpulling, sure, but any actual choices can be easily discarded as WIFOM. What I'm trying to say is: it doesn't really matter if you "lie" or not, because no one would ever be able to tell the difference, I merely wanted an 'honest' scumteam that might give an insight to how you think, rather than an RNG scumteam that serves only to obfuscate.

[webadict]

Right, and I gave it to you. Whether or not it was physically possible isn't my problem, as you seem unimpressed with my actual decision. Perhaps you could be less picky.

And it does matter if you lie or not. Lies can still transfer over even in text mediums. It's harder to catch, but it's possible. So don't say lying is okay when it's not.

[JoshuaFH]

Right, and I gave it to you. Whether or not it was physically possible isn't my problem, as you seem unimpressed with my actual decision. Perhaps you could be less picky.

And it does matter if you lie or not. Lies can still transfer over even in text mediums. It's harder to catch, but it's possible. So don't say lying is okay when it's not.

Can't get anything past you WA, since that's clearly what I was implying. I can only hope sarcasm transfers over as well.

But if I may say, I AM a bit unsatisfied since your 'answer' since it was basically "Well, I'm a giant narcissist so... *Shrugs*", I'm I going to have to live with this? Let me repose the question then, ignoring pretentious things like theory and the flawed human mind or whatever it is you were referencing back there, and assuming you knew that certain people besides yourself would act in a certain way, WHO would you pick as you scumbuddies?

Alright, I only got like twenty minutes left. Let's see...

People that smell the most scummy to me: Tack and...

Right. Well, I'm going to wander away for a bit (read: a full day or so) so you kids have fun in the RVS without me. Or better yet, conclude it in my absence. G'night.

Pandarsenic - You're just gonna wander off and lurk during RVS?  How are we supposed to get a read on you?

I picked Toony and Wuba for my scumbuddies, per http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65736.msg1559545#msg1559545 , which I apparently can't quote easily as the thread is locked.

Lonewolf. You tell me Lonewolf, why are you scummy? I could tell  you, but my hunch is screaming at me, and you have to appease it.

[webadict]

Hey, Josh, I would pick YOU and MR.PERSON. Just because it's random doesn't mean it's not practical or a good team.

But, why so unserious? I mean, was there any real argument in your post to me or was the entire thing just a mass of sarcasm? I gave you the truth and your argument was "if I know webadict, and from my limited return experience, I can safely say I do, them webadict would never randomise a team!" Which is stupid, since it would be much greater potential WIFOM to randomize your team than pick them.

[JoshuaFH]

Even though I'm just getting back into these things, I still feel as though this backandforth banter of wild accusations and logical dissemination is the only way I know how to converse with you WA. I'm perfectly content in attacking your arrogant and self-aggrandizing beliefs, if in the vain hope of scoring a day 1 WA mafia lynch, which would be QUITE the notch on my wall if it occurred.

This was a good warmup, though, I think. Yet alas, I have to depart now, see ya in two days.

Oh, and while I'll be expecting answers from both Tack and Lonewolf when I come back, I'll be unvoting for now.

[Lonewolf I]

That was a fail vote. To correct my error, I'm voting for Zai now.

But anyway, The fact is, Townies have nothing to fear, and therefore I really won't bother making a case for myself. 9 out of 10 of first day lynches are town anyway, So if I can take the hit as the (second) least experienced player here, then I'll be closer to having a win for the team- or, I won't be making it easy for scum by having a good player lynched.

Unvote Pandarsenic, who isn't off the hook for skipping RVS.

Tack - My God, you need to get your game in gear.  Won't bother making a case for yourself?  That's retarded.  If we let scum get away with an excuse like that we'd never get any material off them.  It looks like you're resigned to your own death already, which is hardly warranted.  Are you so sure you're obvscum that you've given up already?  If you're townie and you let yourself get lynched, the only people who benefit are scum, since they can hide behind an easy town lynch without giving themselves away.  Defend yourself! Fight!

[webadict]

@Lonewolf: Question the first: are you voting Tack because you believe he is scum or so that he'll defend himself?
Question the second: why did you unvote if you didn't think Tack was scum?
Question the third and final: was your initial vote just a front for your scum activities?

[Lonewolf I]

Right. Well, I'm going to wander away for a bit (read: a full day or so) so you kids have fun in the RVS without me. Or better yet, conclude it in my absence. G'night.

Pandarsenic - You're just gonna wander off and lurk during RVS?  How are we supposed to get a read on you?

I picked Toony and Wuba for my scumbuddies, per http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65736.msg1559545#msg1559545 , which I apparently can't quote easily as the thread is locked.

Lonewolf. You tell me Lonewolf, why are you scummy? I could tell  you, but my hunch is screaming at me, and you have to appease it.

Is it because I RVS'ed Pandar when he'd already admitted that he would be lurking through RVS?  I have to work all day.  He said he'd be gone all day.  I figured we'd both get back at around the same time.  Seemed convenient.  Turns out I don't have to work all day because I need to fix my car and Tack's turned up stupid, and so I'm back in the game sporadically in between steps of working on my car.

@Lonewolf: Question the first: are you voting Tack because you believe he is scum or so that he'll defend himself?
Question the second: why did you unvote if you didn't think Tack was scum?
Question the third and final: was your initial vote just a front for your scum activities?

Answer the first:  So that he'll defend himself.
Answer the second:  Because I think neither is scum, and Tack needs more pressure than Pandar right now.
Answer the third:  No, it was a front for my work activities.