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Author Topic: Fight to the death the second: Round two  (Read 83996 times)

RAM

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1065 on: November 07, 2010, 12:39:18 am »

Razor and the xenomorph start prowling the island, unless the xenomorph lacks the mental ability to know about the fight to the death, in which case it maybe hides and waits for prey, in which case it doesn't travel far enough to leave or find a trail. So that would leave Razor searching the whole island, which could take months. In which time the alien would get hungry and adapt to hunt bird eggs or something, and wouldn't pursue Razor unless it ran low easier food.
 So lets say that they are both hunting each other. Once again, the distances involved make the direct approach impractical. They are looking for the other's trail. The xenomorph, umm, doesn't seem to have a noted sense of smell, and electrosense isn't mentioned, nor are diamond tails, in fact the original tail sounds more like a club, umm, is there a better source of information than the link on the first page? So the xenomorph and Razor are hunting each other. Xenomorphs leave massive trails, in multiple different environments. They don't really seem to have the knack for subtlety. Razor is probably not particularly skilled at tracking in wilderness or avoiding the same but the xenomorph seems to be a purely ambush and horde-based hunter, so really doesn't need, nor appear to possess any affinity for tracking, I think that the mucous trails actually mean that Razor will be ambushing the xenomorph...

Razor follows the xenomorph's trail, learns its habits enough to place an ambush, shoots it, it dies.

Assuming the xenomorph possesses a keen sense of smell using its non-existent nose and tongue: It hunts down Razor, waits for Razor to sleep, triggers an alarm, probably has about a 60% chance of killing a startled Razor(nevermind, aliens are scared of dreams, as evidenced by never attacking anyone while they are sleeping, except in pods which prevent dreams. Not to mention that those were queen, royal guard, and facehuggers, all known for extremes of both bravery and suicidal tendencies...) between not getting shot, not causing a shield-based repulsion effect and then getting shot, and not shot in melee with an incapacitating weapon.

Assuming the xenomorph sits in place. It makes no trail, follows no trail, its effective area is about .001% of the island. Razor does not find it, establishes a camp, fortifies it, and establishes a long-term food supply. Stale-mate or the xenomorph gets hungry and eventually wanders into Razor's home-territory. Familiarity gives Razor the edge in spotting it, it gets shot, and dies.

Razor gets extremely unlucky and happens to walk directly underneath the xenomorph, gets jumped on. Xenomorph makes a loud noise and splashes drool everywhere. Razor raises shield, 30% chance of being too slow. Razor pushes away, 20% chance of being grabbed, 30% chance of being disabled by large object falling(some overlap). Razor shoots at alien, 10% chance of acid splash.


*notes
 Razor has near unlimited raw materials, is a super-human mechanic, has a custom-built workshop, and 3 days to go to a modest-sized island where someone is trying to kill him. it seems reasonable that he will construct some means of securing a camp-site.

Newborn xenomorphs, such as the one from the first movie, do not spit acid. If they did, they would be too slow a projectile to be effective at range. At close range acid is as effective as second mouth, and therefore redundant. Acid is only effective due to its ability to destroy equipment, but the shield will take at least 5 seconds to melt, by which time the battle will be over. If the acid causes damage due to and exploding xenomorph, Razor will not be defenceless, and the xenomorph will already be dead, so it is not a factor. Acid blood is a complication that can be safely ignored.
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Wolf Tengu

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1066 on: November 07, 2010, 12:41:52 am »

No, they BLED acid.

Is it a moot point that the Aliens were the best predators on the planet they were from? That they actively hunted prey?
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V-Norrec

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1067 on: November 07, 2010, 12:58:03 am »

I would also like to point out Razor has to bring everything through in one trip through the portal, so erm... yeah, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be able to carry enough to create an incredibly secure campsite.

FuzzyZergling

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1068 on: November 07, 2010, 01:00:47 am »

I think that Razor doing the ambushing is probably not likely; a single xenomorph would be intelligent enough to not leave a trail, or even make a fake trail to bait Razor into a trap.

Of course, Razor could do the same thing, but the alien would be better at detecting him at range.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1069 on: November 07, 2010, 01:48:08 am »

I think you're overrating the Xenomorph here. Is it smart? Hell yes. Perhaps even cunning. But intelligent? I don't think so. It is, for all intents and purposes, still a very smart animal. It can't understand concepts such as a "duel" or the rules of the tournament. It won't prepare, because it won't understand the need to. It'll spend its three days frolicking in whatever place it was, until it gets 'ported to the island. Once there, it won't understand that it needs to seek a single target, mostly because it's not aware of it. While xenomorphs are smart on their own, without a hive mind to guide them they lack purpose beyond just being highly aggressive territorial animals. So, the Alien will make the island his hunting ground, and make sure to eliminate everything that is a threat to it. Depending on how active it is and how long it'll take Razor to reach its territoty, it may leave a whole lot of pretty obvious signs, thus alerting Razor to who he is fighting against. At that point, Razor will withdraw to develop a strategy. A fairly obvious one would be to make or find a clearing in the alien's territory, and establish himself as a threat to draw it into the open. Depending on how hungry the Alien is by that point, it may even fall for that, at which point Razor can take it out. But if it doesn't, Razor won't have too many options. Starting a forest fire is one option that will deter an Alien for quite a while, but as mentioned earlier, it is unlikely to work due to specifics of this forest. The other option would be to actively hunt the Alien, keeping alert. Here, it boils down to luck. Who finds who first. Since the Alien would be aware of Razor by this point, it'd try an ambush attack, but there aren't as many effective ambush places in a jungle as there are in a spaceship's corridors. And it'd be in a ring of forest around Razor, which isn't nearly as hard to search as a whole jungle. Coupled with infrared vision and helmet-mounted flashlight allowing Razor to clearly see into the darkest shadows, the chance of the Alien remaining undetected by Razor is very slim. Actually sneaking up from behind would be the only way, and since moving silently is nigh-impossible in a jungle environment, Razor would still be able to react. He may, and probably will suffer glancing blows from the Alien's claws, but as soon as he can see his enemy, Razor will not lose. The Jetpack gives him mobility the Alien can't match, and his firepower is more than sufficient to take the bugger down. He's also supposed to be an incredibly good shot, which is no big wonder considering he designs all the weapons he uses himself. The Alien may evade a missile or two, but Turboblades will still hit it and injure it, at which point it can be easily finished off. That's what I think will happen.
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Jetsquirrel

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1070 on: November 07, 2010, 04:22:30 am »

Ran lemme quote some stuff from the wiki

and for the intelligence there is also a quote.

For the intelligence part
Quote
Unlike many other recurring enemy extraterrestrial races in science fiction, the Aliens are not an intelligent civilization, but predatory creatures with no higher goals than the propagation of their species and the destruction of life that could pose a threat. Like wasps or termites, Aliens are eusocial, with a single fertile queen breeding a caste of warriors

For the tail part
Quote
Aliens have segmented, blade-tipped tails. The sharp tip was initially a small, scorpion-like barb,[9] but from Aliens onwards the blade design increased in size and changed in appearance to more closely resemble a slashing weapon.[1][14] From Alien Resurrection onwards, the tails have a flat ridge of spines at the base of the blade. This was introduced to help them swim convincingly,[15] and was left intact in the subsequent cross-overs. The original shooting script for Aliens and the novelization both featured a scene in which Lieutenant Gorman is "stung" by the barb tail and rendered unconscious.[16] In the final cut of the movie, Gorman is knocked out by falling crates. As a weapon, the strength of the tail is very effective, having been shown to be strong enough to impale and lift a Predator with seemingly little effort. They are also adept at using their tails as blunt weapons, sometimes to deadly effect, as seen in Alien.

For their strenght,speed and agility
Quote
When standing upright, the Aliens are vaguely bipedal in form, though they adopt a more hunched, quadrupedal stance when walking or sprinting. They have a skeletal, biomechanical appearance and are usually colored in muted shades of black, blue or bronze. Aliens do not radiate heat, as their body heat matches the ambient temperature of the environment in which they are found.[1][14] In most of the films, adult Aliens have the ability of running and crawling along ceilings and walls.[1][2] They have great physical strength, having been shown to be capable of breaking through welded steel doors,[1] and matching Predators in single combat.[14]

for the sight part
Quote
They have elongated, cylindrical skulls, but possess no visible eyes, though in the original Alien film, the top of the creature's head was translucent, with empty eye sockets of human appearance visible within. This element was re-used for the "Predalien" 29 years later. How the creatures see is uncertain. In Alien 3, a fisheye lens was used to illustrate the Alien's point of view. In the novelization of the movie Alien, the creature is held mesmerized by a spinning green light for several minutes. In Aliens, the adult creatures have a more textured head rather than a smooth carapace. In the commentary for Aliens, it was speculated that this was part of the maturation of the creatures, as they had been alive far longer than the original Alien. The smooth design of the carapace would be used again in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection, although made narrower with a longer muzzle and more prominent chin. This design would be kept in Alien versus Predator[17] and abandoned in Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem in favor of the ribbed design. The Aliens' inner jaws are powerful enough to smash through bone and metal.[14]

Its not sure what sight they use with no eyes so there is a possibilty of Sonar,Ultra hearing, electrical stuff and some more.

for blood and secretions
Quote
Alien blood is an extremely potent acid and is capable of corroding on contact almost any substance with alarming speed. It is dull yellowish-green in color, and seems to be pressurized inside the body so that it spurts out when punctured. Shusett suggested the idea that the creature have acid blood as a plausible means to make the creature "unkillable"; if one were to use traditional firearms or explosives to attack it, its blood would eat through the hull of the ship.[20] The Alien novelization suggests that, at least at the "facehugger" stage, the acid is not blood but a fluid maintained under pressure between a double layer of skin.[21] In later films in the series, the Aliens are shown to be conscious of the effects of their acidic blood, and even use it to their advantage: In Alien Resurrection, two Aliens escape a cage by killing a fellow Alien so its acid eats through the cage floor; in Aliens vs. Predator a queen being held by chains apparently instructs several Aliens to slash and cut her, thus corroding the chains. In the Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem documentary: "Science of the Alien", it is theorized that the Aliens' acid blood could be some type of "hydrosulphuric acid" composition due to its corrosiveness and the conspicuously toxic effects on living human tissue. The documentary also speculates that Aliens are immune to their own acidic and toxic liquids due to a endobiological build-up similar to the human stomach's ability to protect itself from its digestive fluids. The documentary takes this theory one step further and speculates that the Alien organisms' protection system against its own toxic hydrosulphuric acid is protecting the rest of the organism with what is basically a bio-organically produced Teflon isolation.[22] In the film Alien vs. Predator this is shown to be the case, as a Predator uses Alien chitin to make armor for Alexa that protects her from their blood.
Aliens can produce a thick, strong resin (excreted from their maws, giving them the look of a slavering beast) that they use to build their hives and to cocoon their victims, and they can use the walls of their hives as camouflage. In the original Alien, the facehugger is shown to be able to "spit" acid, melting the faceplate of Kane's helmet and allowing the creature immediate access to the inside. This ability is also exhibited by adult Aliens in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection; much like a spitting cobra, they use it to blind and immobilize their victims.[2][23]

And finally intelligence and communication
Quote
Events on the LV-426 colony and USM Auriga showed that the species excels at observational learning and problem solving.[1][23] In both cases, the Aliens managed to learn how to operate the machinery of their mechanized environments at a very basic level. On LV-426, the Aliens were able to cut the power from a section of the complex to allow themselves access to the humans. The queen was able to learn how to operate a giant elevator simply by observing it once. The novelisation of the film notes that the queen establishing her 'nest' at the base's main power plant could equally be the result of her selecting the warmest part of the base to make her nest or her deliberately selecting a location where any attackers would be unable to destroy her without destroying the entire facility. In the director's commentary for Aliens, James Cameron noted that the creatures in Aliens had been alive for far longer than the Alien in the original, and so had more time to learn how to manipulate machinery.[24] On the USM Auriga, they were able to use blood from another Alien to melt through their enclosure and escape, with the Aliens in the Antarctic temple using a similar strategy to free the queen from her chains. With the exception of the "Newborn", Aliens have demonstrated little actual emotion, save for self preservation and maternal instincts toward their eggs.


Quote
*notes
 Razor has near unlimited raw materials, is a super-human mechanic, has a custom-built workshop, and 3 days to go to a modest-sized island where someone is trying to kill him. it seems reasonable that he will construct some means of securing a camp-site.

Newborn xenomorphs, such as the one from the first movie, do not spit acid. If they did, they would be too slow a projectile to be effective at range. At close range acid is as effective as second mouth, and therefore redundant. Acid is only effective due to its ability to destroy equipment, but the shield will take at least 5 seconds to melt, by which time the battle will be over. If the acid causes damage due to and exploding xenomorph, Razor will not be defenceless, and the xenomorph will already be dead, so it is not a factor. Acid blood is a complication that can be safely ignored.

Nonononono, he does NOT have a unlimited supply of materials to take with him, he can take only that much he can carry so a whole scrapyard is excluded. He has exactly 3 days to study,built and train to fight the alien. Even if he is superhuman he cant churn out gadgets like a factory if he can then he may seriously be OP. and quit it with martial arts, alien wins in close combat no discussion. He has multipipe means to take out the character in that range and a mid range weapon and that is his acid spit.




Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1071 on: November 07, 2010, 04:46:02 am »

An acid spit could be effective, but it doesn't seem like a preferred Xenomorph weapon, primarily because it's, you know, their blood. They can use it as an ad-hoc tool or improvised weapon when wounded, but I doubt it would be used as a means of a sneak attack in these circumstances.

Also, SWAT Kats regularly break through/out of various armored spaces, Razor on one occasion breaking out of a giant stone sarcophagus with a flying kick, so his strength should allow him to hold his own, especially combined with agility.

Where gadgets are concerned, Razor is the unrivaled champion for originality and design, but not one for production speed and (sometimes, embarrasingly) reliabilty. Gadgets Razor makes are almost on par with Batman's, but he won't build a hundred of them over the course of three days. And like I said, he's likely to focus on hardening his gear and making an armored suit for himself, rather than going for traps and encampment things.

And I won't agree on "Alien wins in close combat, no discussion". An Alien's weapons are jaws, claws, and a spike tail, plus its strength. But it won't take more than a solid kick to knock it to the ground, and acid blood aside, it is not a more dangerous opponent than what SWAT Kats have already faced off against. Razor has the means and the skill to quickly turn the tables on a xenomorph in close combat, primarily by forcing a move to ranged combat, with the xenomorph suddenly stuck to a tree.
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dragonshardz

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1072 on: November 07, 2010, 07:29:33 am »

* dragonshardz DGAFs all over the thread.

I just don't care anymore - usually when I've participated in Who-Would-Win discussions, it's been fun, but this is just annoying.

RAM

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1073 on: November 07, 2010, 07:33:52 am »

I think I'm just about done with this battle, I need to go and prepare to curb-stomp a ghost...
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ed boy

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Re: Fight to the death the second
« Reply #1074 on: November 07, 2010, 09:22:50 am »

Wow, this discussion spanned twelve pages of thread.

Winner: Razor

Although the alien would win in extended combat, razor would be able to fend it off long enough to immobilize it with one of the projectiles of his glove thingy. Once immobilized, he can safely and quickly dispose of it.

Next match:Youmu Konpaku VS A guardian naga

Spoiler: tree (click to show/hide)
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CJ1145

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1075 on: November 07, 2010, 10:29:20 am »

Man, you leave for two days to get wisdom teeth pulled, and all your wildest dreams come true. I'm just so... happy :')

But yeah, gonna go ahead and stay out of this battle, I know nothing about these two.
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The Scout

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Re: Fight to the death the second
« Reply #1076 on: November 07, 2010, 10:48:58 am »

Wow, this discussion spanned twelve pages of thread.

Winner: Razor

Although the alien would win in extended combat, razor would be able to fend it off long enough to immobilize it with one of the projectiles of his glove thingy. Once immobilized, he can safely and quickly dispose of it.

Next match:Youmu Konpaku VS A guardian naga

Spoiler: tree (click to show/hide)
Seems I'm a little to late to enfluence this. The alien could've dug a tunnel and filled it with the webbing and hide in the wall while the webbing fed it vital nutrients. Always next game.
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Jetsquirrel

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1077 on: November 07, 2010, 10:57:28 am »

i still say alien would have won this due to superior stealth, and close combat while fighting in the jungle

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1078 on: November 07, 2010, 11:04:11 am »

i still say alien would have won this due to superior stealth, and close combat while fighting in the jungle

Well, it's the judge's decision, and I respect the judge enough not to question decisions. Let's just move on.
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HailFire

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round two: Razor VS Alien
« Reply #1079 on: November 07, 2010, 11:07:23 am »

Debaters do their best now and are preparing. Please watch warmly until it is ready.
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