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Author Topic: Drow proposal "Rutile"  (Read 1635 times)

Michael

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Drow proposal "Rutile"
« on: August 31, 2010, 04:44:01 am »

"Rutile" is a codename I've chosen for this vision of what Drow (dark elves) in DF could be like.  If anyone else proposes a different vision, I encourage them to adopt a different material-in-DF as a codename to avoid confusion.

(Some of the things in this thread I've suggested before in other threads.)

Before dealing with the drow themselves, one change to existing DF semantics is needed: underground wood (tower caps, etc.) would not be considered truly trees by elves or drow.  So they would no longer count against elven quotas.


As I see it, Drow would be an offshoot of the elves who have been magically banished from the surface for acting too dwarfy.  (Dwarfy meaning the way DF players behave, not any resemblence to the ethics Toady officially assigned the dwarves...)

All drow have incurable cave adaptation, and their retreats are within the underground caverns.  Both elves and drow have influence over the nearby furries, which explains why underground animalmen are nastier.

Both have an intrinsic "lust" for trees, but express it differently.  Live trees are most preferable, but simply not available for the drow.  So elves seek to keep trees alive, but drow try to surround themselves with dead wood bought from outside, as that is better than nothing.  So instead of imposing a maximum logging quota, drow will try to negotiate a minimum log delivery quota.

If trees were women, elves would be like a hero who sleeps around but will always respect a No, and will be motivated to kill a rapist even if he doesn't particularly like the victim.  Drow instead, are like ugly sex-starved otaku who actually consider FATAL a worthwhile game.

And speaking of FATAL, drow would have a "have its cadaver" spell of sorts.  If they can get surface wood logs from trade, they will use them to create undead trees for their parks.  Undead trees don't require light, although naturally occurring undead trees happen to be in lighted positions since they haven't moved since becoming undead.

While drow forging ability is inferior to that of the dwarves, they do have one edge - they can smelt some 20th-century metals.  In particular, they will have access to titanium.  Titanium can be considered a "living metal", almost as good as wood, since:
  • it is very compatible with living things.  Bone heals strongly around implanted titanium objects; in real life it is the only good material for the roots of dental implants.
  • when alloyed with nickel, it displays a weird "shape memory" effect, which could poetically be regarded as lifelike.
  • it cannot be reforged normally for the same reason wood can't -- it will catch fire before melting.
(As a metal, titanium is roughly as good as iron, but lighter.  Perhaps a good choice for armor if you can't spare the adamantine, yet have dwarves who can't move full speed in steel.)

If you have no relationship with the elves, and have a path from depot to an underground map edge, drow caravans may arrive instead.  Drow have wagons, making it worthwhile for a drow-courting player to make three-wide tunnel from his depot to the caverns.  Drow caravans will not cross outdoor tiles.

Drow will pay above standard price for surface-wood products, and for ores such as rutile and bauxite that can be used for drow-exclusive smelting.  They will sell aluminum below standard price.

Like surface elves, Drow will sell pets, but these will be of cavern species.

Drow do not participate in the regular city-on-city wars during worldgen, not for lack of inclination.  They can't come to the surface, and the other races do not enter the caverns.

(I'll put this on Eternal Suggestions, although my vote goes to more practical things at the moment...)
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TolyK

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 04:44:25 pm »

nice... more sentient races are better. plus a reason to maybe not block off the caverns...
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Neonivek

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 06:02:24 pm »

One of the points of the Undead is that they are essentially dead, meaning they are deprived of that which are that of the living.

One of which is the ability to grow. An undead tree for all intents and purposes is a tree that still acts like a tree but doesn't grow. An undead child doesn't grow and nor should a tree unless some other force acts upon it.

An undead Apple tree may have apples, the one it had when it turned undead, all year round since it doesn't require nutriance or sunlight.
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 10:35:36 pm »

There are other civilizations underground. Will they be fighting them?
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TolyK

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 11:29:41 am »

yes wars will still happen, but only local (ant men die die die!)  ;)
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Michael

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 12:41:31 am »

Oh, looks like my thread got some responses while I was away from the DF scene....

One of the points of the Undead is that they are essentially dead, meaning they are deprived of that which are that of the living.

One of which is the ability to grow. An undead tree for all intents and purposes is a tree that still acts like a tree but doesn't grow. An undead child doesn't grow and nor should a tree unless some other force acts upon it.
Not a problem for my proposal.  My Drow are not buying tree seed, undeadizing it, and then planting it.

Rather, they buy logs from outside, and have their carpenters make a tree, just as modern humans make Christmas trees out of plastic. Once the reconstituted tree is as close as possible without magic, the druid then comes along and performs some Drow voodoo so that the tree seems alive to Drow walking through their underground arboretum.

Humans and dwarves would find this bizarre, while surface elves can feel the original tree's spirit cry for vengeance.

There are other civilizations underground. Will they be fighting them?
They would be able to dominate the underground furries the same as the normal elves dominate the aboveground ones.  In fact, the evilness of the cave furries would be the fault of the Drow.

As for the Hidden Fun Stuff, I suppose if anyone could peacefully negotiate with them, then the Drow would be doing it.  But the HFS is probably too Ax Crazy for them. Also, if the Drow did have contact, they would joyously offer the HFS the one thing they want most -- access to the surface world.   The Drow would love to see the demons rape the surface elves if this could be done without massive Drow casualties.  Since DF worlds do not finish worldgen as hellscapes, evidently contact has not been made.
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Max White

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 12:48:56 am »

If trees were women
Somewhere out there an elf just jizzed he's pants.

ZioAnthros

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2011, 04:16:11 pm »

The whole tree theme is very well done, just full of flavor!
This is the best idea for under-elves i've heard in some time.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2011, 07:24:40 pm »

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me evil biomes actually has undead trees... and they grow.
Also unlike dwarves dwors should have a worse case of cave adaptation.
Like... second-third degree burns when exposed to direct sunlight or something even more lethal.
Hell make them nausead by the moonlight.

Why? Because if all the sunlight does to them is some pansy nausea there wouldnt be much reason for them to stay underground (especially if they are really dwarfy elves).
They would probably makie humanlike villages outside close (or in) forrests and their only difference would be an inverted Day/night cycle for them (sleep during the day and hug trees after dark).
Sunlight being lethal would make living among their beloved trees too risky to be worth it. even for diehard nocturnal treehuggers.

Oh and... do they worship Quarry Bushes? They grow underground and have leaves.
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Michael

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 08:14:06 pm »

Also unlike dwarves dwors should have a worse case of cave adaptation.
Definitely.  Dwarven cave adaptation is just an accidental physiological quirk.  Droven cave adaptation is explicitly a curse, expressly designed to force them off the surface forever.
 
Oh and... do they worship Quarry Bushes? They grow underground and have leaves.
Probably not.  Note that I explicitly include as a rider that now elves no longer consider the underground wood sources to be really trees.  And even currently, the surface elves do not support rights of gatherable (as opposed to loggable) plants.

At best, since the Quarry Bushes resemble plants more than the other shrooms, they might be the most popular "houseplant" among the Drow.  But this would be like a teddy bear for someone who really wants a cat.  It wouldn't be acknowledged as deserving the same reverence as the real thing.
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catoblepas

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2011, 09:13:23 pm »

I don't think that Vanilla DF needs dark elves. There is only one kind of dwarf, human, elf, goblin and kobold for the game, so it doesn't seem proper right now to add more races in, considering we have most of the 'stock' fantasy races in already.

Drow are pretty easy to mod in though, and myself and several other modders have done so in the past, so I don't see the need to add dark elves.
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TolyK

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2011, 10:20:23 am »

reread the thread please.
you can't have large underground civs. the whole point is that they live and even send trade caravans in the caverns!
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catoblepas

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2011, 01:36:04 pm »

Please don't dismiss what I say just because you don't like it, there are problems with implementing this sort of thing.
Drow are not a 'stock race' like goblins, dwarves etc. Adding in drow as a race would be along the same lines as adding displacer beasts and mindflayers. They have their place, and I'm not saying I don't like them, but so far toady seems to prefer adding in his own creatures, the stock creatures being the exception.

Toady has said that he does not want to advance technology past a certain level, so titanium is out.

We already have undead trees, as has been pointed out, so making a race that specializes in making it does not make sense.

Making a race that specializes in

1) making metals that Toady will not agree to implement.
2)making wood which c=players can easily get themselves.
3)weird tree fetishes
4)Is an offshoot of a race we already have in the game.

Would be redundant in many ways because most of that overlaps in some way with the elves we already have, there just isn't much use for them as most of their niches are filled by other races. Additionally, the metalsmithing of titanium would never be implemented by toady.

This is a very specific proposal for a specific view of drow that would probably be best relegated to mods.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 01:37:35 pm by catoblepas »
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Sonlirain

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2011, 02:04:48 pm »

1) making metals that Toady will not agree to implement.
2)making wood which c=players can easily get themselves.
3)weird tree fetishes
4)Is an offshoot of a race we already have in the game.

1) A titanium bar is not advanced technology. Modern day humans use titanium in some of the more advanced projects but titanium itself is not advanced. Just hard to smelt... but bluesteel is a hard to come around material as well (and a pain to extract from the "ore" and the vein...).
If smiths can process adamtium then quite surely they could do the same with titanium. Or just hell just forget its titanium and call it mithril both elves and dwarves love it.

2) They love above ground wood but cannot go above ground therefore they buy anything made out of wood. Nothing complicated.

3) There are weirder fetishes IRL. Besides wood (obove ground variant) is a valuable comodity for them.

4) So are gnomes and dark gnomes. Titans and Forgotten beasts (who are actually underground titans). There is no reason to put a race down just because its an underground offshot.
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catoblepas

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Re: Drow proposal "Rutile"
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 04:04:38 pm »

1) making titanium is far advanced of anything from the late middle ages, which is where toady has said he wants the technology level to stay at. Steel has been used for centuries before the middle ages.

2+3) we already have undead in the game and humans, dwarves, and elves all deal with wood currently. These proposals are rather redundant as far as unique features go.

4)gnomes and dark gnomes do not for civilizations. They really aren't handled much different then the different kinds of gibbons. Forgotten beasts and titans are not all of one race, each one is 'the only one of its kind' after all, and they do not form civilizations either.

I would expect an underground trading civ to be introduced at some point, but the concept of 'dark elves' is a bit specific as far as fantasy races go, and your interpretation of them is even more specific. Broader suggestions to expand underground civilizations in general would probably be a better subject to address. From there, it would be fairly simple to mod in some form of dark elf or another. There isn't really any more call to have a dark elf civ in the vanilla game then there is for beholders or mindflayers. They just wouldn't add that much to the game. Highly specific races like that would be better suited to mods, and there are still plenty of more familiar fantasy races to expand before Toady gets that far down on the list. I'd expect a Gnome or Hobbit civilization to be implemented before a dark elf one, and I'm not holding my breath for either any time soon.

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