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Author Topic: Crusader Kings 2 is released.  (Read 2112569 times)

Sirbug

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9645 on: February 21, 2016, 11:38:07 am »

Yeah, I've got a claim. Just didn't notice she has leige between her and the king. I'm allowed to declare war on her liege, so it all makes sense now.

But I'd rather don't. My shrewd old hag died and her son is kinda crappy. For whatever reason, all his relationship are in negative and I guess this is the reason why I can't raise any vassal levies.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

scriver

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9646 on: February 21, 2016, 11:46:58 am »

There's a "short reign" relationship modifier that goes from minus to plus (then it becomes "long reign") over time. It's basically that your vassals don't trust you until you've proven yourself a capable (or dead-worthy) ruler. In the earlier starts this penalty can be pretty harsh, since it is alleviated by one of the Culture Techs (Legalism or Majesty, I believe), which you might not have a particularly high one early on.
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Love, scriver~

Sirbug

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9647 on: February 21, 2016, 12:00:15 pm »

There's a "short reign" relationship modifier that goes from minus to plus (then it becomes "long reign") over time. It's basically that your vassals don't trust you until you've proven yourself a capable (or dead-worthy) ruler. In the earlier starts this penalty can be pretty harsh, since it is alleviated by one of the Culture Techs (Legalism or Majesty, I believe), which you might not have a particularly high one early on.
There's no such modification. It's just particularly unfortunate combo of low stats and bad character traits. My new character is kinda lame.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

gimli

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9648 on: February 21, 2016, 12:19:53 pm »

Sirbug - There is no "short reign" penalty if you are playing with a Buddhist or Jainist ruler. Are you playing with an Indian character?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 12:21:49 pm by gimli »
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Sirbug

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9649 on: February 21, 2016, 12:25:27 pm »

No, I'm some minor Norge noble. I think "Short Reign" just passed, but other penalties were heavy and remained. I got my chancellor to run around spreading propaganda and it seem to fix most issues. Funnily, my chancellor still hated me.
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

Sirbug

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9650 on: February 21, 2016, 01:45:50 pm »

Four generations and it seems I finally gettting somewhere. My random nobody from Oppland is now the duchest duke in all the Norge. Nobody can stop our family. Except for Swedes that is.

I bethroted my son to underage countess. I wonder what benefits I can get from it. Can I expect to claim her province somewhere down the line?
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Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

EuchreJack

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9651 on: February 21, 2016, 03:23:28 pm »

If you have the newest DLC Conclave, then your liege can declare Realm Peace, which prohibits wars between vassals.  It might even take effect if you don't own the DLC as part of the patch, I don't know.

Uristides

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9652 on: February 21, 2016, 03:49:00 pm »

The combat system in this game is so confusing. You have fixed units whose individual composition you can only indirectly affect by constructing buildings that give you more of a certain troop type, you pour those units into a flank led by a commander that probably already has a long list of traits affecting the performance of the flank, possibly in very specific ways(eg depending on the flank's composition), and then that commander has a pool of possible tactics determined by his own traits and the composition of the flank it leads and their effects can be good or bad depending on the flank composition again. Not to mention the abundance of troop types and stats, and other obscure aspects I may have forgotten completely.
Is it really worth the time investment in theorycrafting and microing to get the troop composition and leaders that have a high chance to roll the best tactics?
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Kanil

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9653 on: February 21, 2016, 03:59:58 pm »

All the time you spend perfecting your small army would be better spent making a bigger army.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Delta Foxtrot

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9654 on: February 21, 2016, 04:02:15 pm »

You'll most likely win if you have more troops and a not horrible commander.

Quality is something you can optionally chase once you've maximized your troops per dollar.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9655 on: February 21, 2016, 04:12:42 pm »

How to win CK2 combat:

Step 1: Build longbowmen
Step 2: Win

Alternatively
Step 1: Build horse archers
Step 2: Win

Alternatively
Step 1: Build cataphracts
Step 2: Win

Alternatively
Step 1: Through family and intrigue, amass a vast host before you declare war against a dynasty you have divided upon itself
Step 2: You have already won

Uristides

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9656 on: February 21, 2016, 05:38:40 pm »

Nope!
All the time you spend perfecting your small army would be better spent making a bigger army.
You'll most likely win if you have more troops and a not horrible commander.

Quality is something you can optionally chase once you've maximized your troops per dollar.
That's both reassuring and, in a way, depressing. I was expecting to find some small things I could do to improve my efficiency, and to a certain extent customize my army, without getting too obsessed with details. Like how in EUIV you can pick idea groups that match your overall strategy/NIs, ensure you never go under insufficient support or have artillery in the front row or pay attention to the tech progression to gauge when fire starts becoming more important than shock, etc.

How to win CK2 combat:

Step 1: Build longbowmen
Step 2: Win

Alternatively
Step 1: Build horse archers
Step 2: Win

Alternatively
Step 1: Build cataphracts
Step 2: Win

Alternatively
Step 1: Through family and intrigue, amass a vast host before you declare war against a dynasty you have divided upon itself
Step 2: You have already won
Option 4 is definitely my favorite, even though the dynastic system is another thing I'm not quite sure I understand how it works(and how to exploit it for fun and for profit). Contrary to combat though I feel dynasties can be made sense of without recurring to spreadsheets  :P
And I thought longbowmen were nerfed ever since a while ago(HL patch, I think)? Never really used them, just what I read around forums.
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BishopX

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9657 on: February 21, 2016, 06:58:44 pm »

So there's a few glaring expections to the above advice:

1)Retinues. You have complete control over them, so building a wing of an army with a strong focus works very well
2)Hordes (using the horselords dlc). Hordes are proben out by 250 man unit, so you can build focus here as well
3) Mercenaries. Many mercenaries have a different troop mix than normal levies. You can pull off some neat tricks with these.
4)vassal levies from another government form (e.g. tribal vs. feudal). Different types of holdng give vastly different troop mixtures, which means that you should take care how they're deployed.

In general strong skirmish troops can hold their own in smalller battles, but once we get into the 2k+ fights the melee folks begin shine....kee that in mind when you're looking at what your unit composition is. Particularity when dealing with tribal vs. Feudal combat.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9658 on: February 21, 2016, 07:22:48 pm »

Quote
Alternatively
Step 1: Through family and intrigue, amass a vast host before you declare war against a dynasty you have divided upon itself
Step 2: You have already won
Option 4 is definitely my favorite, even though the dynastic system is another thing I'm not quite sure I understand how it works(and how to exploit it for fun and for profit). Contrary to combat though I feel dynasties can be made sense of without recurring to spreadsheets  :P
And I thought longbowmen were nerfed ever since a while ago(HL patch, I think)? Never really used them, just what I read around forums.
The whole notion of dynasty is just aggressively marry and produce as many children as possible to aggressively marry, make your children and all in your dynasty aggressively marry, give any lands you conquer to your family, marry off your children to heirs as soon as possible, keep growing and growing and eventually you reach critical mass where your dynasty begins increasing by itself across foreign Empires, cultures, even religions. In my most prolific Miroslav world-dynasty run several tens of thousands of noblemen and women were Miroslavs, every head of state was a Miroslav, everyone in the medieval had a Miroslav as a common ancestor, Miroslavs ruled on all levels of governments from barony to Empire, every Pope of all major branches of Christianity were Miroslav, all the Holy Order Grandmasters were Miroslav, even when the Mongols invaded it wasn't long before they became Miroslav, and when I exported it to EUIV even China and Japan became Miroslav. Good practice is to play as one of the Rurikovich, Isauros or Karling chieftains/monarchs as they already start with heavily entrenched dynasties. The Rurikovich are the Russian principalities who band together when invaded and fight amongst themselves when at peace, the Karlings are the breakup states of the Carolingian Empire and the Isauros are the rulers of the Byzantine Empire. If you want to have that sort of dynasty play that focuses almost exclusively on cloak and dagger / political intrigue, Dharmic India pre-Islamic invasion is pretty good as a lot of the great holy wars and invasions do not touch the continent and physical territorial changes are very slow, with pretty much all control having to pass through clever dynasty management or gradual annexation. Playing as a Sultan during and after the Islamic invasion would also be pretty good, though you wouldn't have as much ability to marry off Dharmic dynasties, you would be able to use a lot of Holy War mechanics the other rulers can't use and then replace all the title-holders with your dynasty members, allowing for more dynasty construction that way.

General rule of thumb:
  • Never marry your children off to children with inferior congenital traits like ugly, inbred or pretty much anything that hampers fertility like old age.
  • Even if you cannot find suitable spouses for your dynasty members who are heirs or will produce heirs, marry of your children to eligible courtiers of good traits to produce more children for future opportunities.
  • Check up inheritence laws and use them wisely. For example marrying your son to a Karling Queen will produce children of your dynasty, but under an elective monarchy they may nonetheless choose a Karling and not your dynastic relative as the heir (and so your relative will have to prove itself or you'll just have to keep trying until they choose one of your relatives). Likewise almost all of the times you ask a King will not want to grant a matrilineal marriage between you and any of his sons on account of there being a real possibility one of them would be heir and produce your heir. So what do you do? You propose a matrilineal marriage between the thirdborn's son's son and your daughter or something close to it and wait for the older sons of the King to die childless, recklessly (or sneakily, help them die yourself) and your dynasty will inherit that title. And failing that, you will now have hold of your own dynasty members with claims to that title. If you yourself are powerful you can press those claims, or if you are less powerful, you can swear fealty to that Lord and then start a faction to install your dynasty member to the throne.
  • Always be wary when passing out big titles to your children. If you give too many powerful titles with relatives too closely related, you can end up with brothers and sisters with lots of power with strong claims to each others' titles. This is why cultivating the entire family, even unlanded dynastic members is important.


Just some examples on how to be super sneaky with dynasties. Also when trying to play intrigues on foreign religions and the Mongols, be very careful as the religions isolate the dynastic branches and controlling dynasty drift (where branches stop answering to your main dynastic line and take on their own individual path) can be exacerbated when your own dynastic offshoots start gunning for your titles / start fusing into one super Empire with designs on your land. Generally it's a good idea to try and control the religious head so you essentially control your family's pocket money, and can withdraw it from unruly branches behaving out of line.

Rolan7

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #9659 on: February 21, 2016, 09:22:15 pm »

Page 666 (on default) so...
HAIL LILITH, of the Better Gender Laws mod.

Also haha, yeah short reign modifier is definitely a thing.  Though with retinues, it's usually just a feint which results in unloyal lords being purged as the scum they are.
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This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.
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