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[Rolan7]

It's the worst, except you gain allllllll the score
And you often recover titles since the inheritors have them.  Even if you give them away immediately, that's a nice bonus.

[Tawa]

Ultimo's main draw, IMO, is that if you don't have Conclave, it's easier to get than Primogeniture (Low Crown Authority, rather than High.) If you're willing to game the system by having lots of kids until you get one you like, then offing your wife/leaving your concubines/breaking up with your mistress, you can use ultimo get a better ruler at a younger age, but I prefer to play the game "correctly", myself, so I prefer primogeniture.

Seniority is amazing for unification games because the issue stops being "how can I get my oldest son on this throne" and instead becomes "how can I get my legitimized bastard fourth cousin thrice removed on the throne". It especially breaks 1066 Russia--practically everyone in Russia is a Rurikid, so you can basically start as, say, the prince of Novgorod or Kiev, hit Seniority, and wait, maybe killing landless heirs every now and then. Sometimes you can don't even have to have kids because everyone else will do it for you. The best part is that it's one of the easiest to access succession laws that both keeps titles together and keeps your dynasty on the throne, especially with Conclave, so you can use it before hitting Legalism 3.

[Justin]

anyone want to start a multiplayer game?

my idea is we start early as vikings, each player claims a duchy and we go from there.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

anyone want to start a multiplayer game?

my idea is we start early as vikings, each player claims a duchy and we go from there.

What time you want to host it?

[Justin]

whenever your available. I downloaded jade empire yesterday, all im missing is monks and mystics

[Cyroth]

Spoiler: Spoiler, because huge (click to show/hide)

So I let the game run in observer mode for about 450 years, and this is the weirdest map I've ever seen. EVER.
- Taoist Middle East, fighting a 2 front war against the catholic Mongol Empire and paulican Byzantium.
- Islam is almost extinct (never seen that happen to a major religion before), except for maybe 10 counties in the Western Protectorate and the 2 tiny kingdoms of Yemen and Fatimid. All Sunni, no other islamic faiths exist any more.
- Germany exists, but it owns mostly tiny holdings in eastern europe and about half of Scandinavia. Oh, and it is ruled by a black queen.
- Leon is cathar and owns about half of spain (the north), southern spain is shared between catholic Ghana and paulican Byzantium.
- Lithuania is of the reformed germanic faith and owns the other half of Scandinavia as well as most of the British Isles, except for a small enclave in Wales that belongs to Germany.

[Ehndras]

o.O How do you do observer mode? I must try this...

[Cyroth]

1 Open console with §
2 type observer
3 ? ? ?
4 profit

 

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Use the ~ key, then type 'observer' into the console, I believe.

[Cyroth]

Its § (SHIFT+3) in the german version, guess its different in other languages.

[Tawa]

I've seen a couple reports of Rum forming in the new patch. Can anyone corroborate these?

E: Also, is anyone encountering a bug where closing windows with Escape closes the windows in the wrong order (i.e. closing the windows in the back first)?

[Tawa]

Oh, wow. This is amazing. I think this is my favorite patch yet, barring the wildly overpowered Jade Dragon CBs.

...Speaking of which, those CBs are insane. Force Vassalization is even worse than I thought at first; I've seen the HRE destroy Denmark and Croatia today alone, and when they didn't wreck Croatia, Byzantium did (via De Jure Duchy.) The perma-tributary CB is probably the worst of the lot, because the AI seemingly caves at the slightest breeze.

Although I will say that the tributary one has breathed new survival abilities into Ethiopia. The Nubians and Abyssinians tend to become Fatimid tributaries, but that's better than the annihilation they faced before.

[Ehndras]

Indeed. Sick of watching promising realms/cultures/faiths simply wiped off the face of the Earth. With tributaries, at least they seem to have a fighting chance?

[ZeroGravitas]

Well, mostly, yeah. Everyone saying it looks at youngest dynasty member is wrong (unless that just changed in JE). Generally it only looks at the current ruler's children.

However, it can get weird with grandchildren and agnatic-cognatic ultimogeniture. It's still not "youngest dynasty member" but it's some backward-ass calculation that isn't necessarily what you'd expect.

I'm 95% certain that's how it works in real life, so it's just as intended. Lines of succession get very muddled and confused when you get grandchildren or cousins involved. Historically several wars and conflicts were fought over such things.

I mean, kind of, but no, the game's representation is not really realistic for the societies that actually use it in the game - the Mongols. Mongol sons should inherit when they marry, inheriting outlying titles (rounded up in their favor) with the youngest son inheriting only the capital on his parent's death.

There was some true ultimogeniture outside of the Mongols in Western Europe (small parts of England and Germany) but it's not used anywhere in-game. And I'm pretty sure that none of those places had A-C Ultimogeniture the way it works in-game.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Oh. I thought we were talking about primogeniture for some silly reason. My mistake. Carry on.