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[Qloos]

This thread will alow us to explore how a dwarfs attributes, soul attributes and personality could affect their use of skills, (or general actions) in a daily dwarf fortress setting.

There's alot to discuss.  At first I thought it'd be best to debate one skill or action in relation to an attribute per day, but then I realised that doing it that way would take over 4900 days. 

So instead we're doing it this way:  We have one day to discuss each skill or action a creature can take inside the fortress and how that can be affected or affect by any or all of his attributes and personality traits.  It's still over a hundred days of discussion. 


Actions and Skills

SKILLS
        * Dabbling
        * Novice
        * Adequate
        * Competent
        * Skilled
        * Proficient
        * Talented
        * Adept
        * Expert
        * Professional
        * Accomplished
        * Great
        * Master
        * High Master
        * Grand Master
        * Legendary


Miner
Bowyer
Carpentry
Wood Cutter
Engraver
Mason
Ambusher
Animal caretaker
Animal dissector
Animal trainer
Trapper
Bone doctor
Crutch walker
Diagnostician
Surgeon
Sutrer
Wound dresser
Brewer
Butcher
Cheese maker
Cook
Dyer
Grower
Herbalist
Lye maker
Milker
Miller
Potash maker
Soaper
Tanner
Thresher
Wood burner
Fish cleaner
Fish dissector
Fisherdwarf
Armorsmith
Furnace operator
Metal crafter
Metalsmith
Weaponsmith
Gem cutter
Gem setter
Bone carver
Clothier
Glassmaker
Leatherworker
Stone crafter
Weaver
Wood crafter
Strand extractor
Mechanic
Pump perator
Siege engineer
Siege operator
Alchemist
Cleaning
Appraiser
Building designer
Organizer
Record keeper
Archer
Armor user
Axeman
Biter
Crossbowdwarf
Dodger
Fighter
Hammerdwarf
Kicker
Macedwarf
Shield user
Speardwarf
Striker
Sworddwarf
Wrestler
Comedian
Conversationalist
Flatterer
Intimidator
Judge of intent
Liar
Negotiator
Persuader
Concentration
Consoler
Observer
Pacifier
Student
Teacher




ACTIONS
I'm probably missing a few actions a dwarf can take, remind me what they are.


Idle
On break
Sleeping
Eating
Drinking
Cleaning
Hauling
Partying
Tantruming


Attributes and Personality Traits

ATTRIBUTES

A creature has numerous attributes which impact its performance at various tasks. These attributes are split into physical factors associated with the body and mental factors associated with a creature's soul.
Attributes are located in the Thoughts and Preferences screen. Body attributes are listed just above prefstrings, and soul attributes are listed immediately thereafter. Positive attributes are dark green and negative attributes are red.
Attributes are now associated with skills, so that shield use will raise endurance as an attribute, but not attributes like memory. Attribute gain and rust rates, along with skill gain and rust rates, are moddable in the raws as Creature_Tokens.
Attributes can be viewed for individual dwarfs by selecting view dwarves, z, enter or by going to the units menu, view, then enter.


Strength
    *  unbelievably strong
    * mighty
    * very strong
    * strong
    * weak
    * very weak
    * unquestionably weak
    * unfathomably weak

Agility
    *  amazingly agile
    * extremely agile
    * very agile
    * agile
    * clumsy
    * quite clumsy
    * totally clumsy
    * abysmally clumsy

Toughness
    *  basically unbreakable
    * incredibly tough
    * quite durable
    * tough
    * flimsy
    * very flimsy
    * remarkably flimsy
    * shockingly fragile

Endurance
    *  absolutely inexhaustible
    * indefatigable
    * very slow to tire
    * slow to tire
    * quick to tire
    * very quick to tire
    * extremely quick to tire
    * truly quick to tire

Disease resistance
    *  virtually never sick
    * almost never sick
    * very rarely sick
    * rarely sick
    * susceptible to disease
    * quite susceptible to disease
    * really susceptible to disease
    * stunningly susceptible to disease

Recuperation
    *  possessed of amazing recuperative powers
    * incredibly quick to heal
    * quite quick to heal
    * quick to heal
    * slow to heal
    * very slow to heal
    * really slow to heal
    * shockingly slow to heal




SOUL ATTRIBUTES

With respect to skills: most of these attributes only effect duration, when that is the only available skill effect to begin with, but they are factored into outcomes when it applies.


Analytical Ability
Animal caretaker • Trapper • Cheese maker • Cook • Furnace operator • Strand extractor • Gem cutter • Siege engineer • Siege operator • Mechanic • Architecture • Diagnostician • Appraiser • Organizer • Record keeper • Knowledge Acquisition • Knapping

    * awesome intellectual powers
    * great analytical abilities
    * a sharp intellect
    * a good intellect
    * poor analytical abilities
    * very bad analytical abilities
    * a lousy intellect
    * a stunning lack of analytical ability

Memory
Animal caretaker • Herbalist • Diagnostician • Appraiser • Record keeper • Knowledge Acquisition

    * an astonishing memory
    * an amazing memory
    * a great memory
    * a good memory
    * an iffy memory
    * a poor memory
    * a really bad memory
    * little memory to speak of

Creativity
Bone carver • Clothier • Glassmaker • Leatherworker • Stone crafter • Weaver • Wood crafter • Trapper • Cheese maker • Cook • Architecture • Organizer • Liar • Comedian

    * a boundless creative imagination
    * great creativity
    * very good creativity
    * good creativity
    * meager creativity
    * poor creativity
    * lousy creativity
    * next to no creative talent

Intuition
Animal trainer • Judge of intent • Appraiser • Observer • Diagnostician

    * uncanny intuition
    * great intuition
    * very good intuition
    * good intuition
    * bad intuition
    * very bad intuition
    * lousy intuition
    * horrible intuition

Focus
Fisherdwarf • Ranged Combat • Siege operator • Sneak • Surgeon • Bone doctor • Suturer • Record keeper • Knowledge Acquisition • Concentration • Observer

    * unbreakable focus
    * a great ability to focus
    * very good focus
    * the ability to focus
    * poor focus
    * quite poor focus
    * really poor focus
    * the absolute inability to focus

Willpower
Miner • Wood cutter • Melee Combat • Crutch-walker • Pump operator • Swimmer • Concentration • Resists exertion/pain effects

    * an unbreakable will
    * an iron will
    * a lot of willpower
    * willpower
    * little willpower
    * a large deficit of willpower
    * next to no willpower
    * absolutely no willpower

Patience
Animal trainer • Fisherdwarf • Concentration • Some non-skill tasks

    * absolutely boundless patience
    * a deep well of patience
    * a great deal of patience
    * a sum of patience
    * a shortage of patience
    * little patience
    * very little patience
    * no patience at all

Spatial Sense
Miner • Wood cutter • Bone carver • Clothier • Glassmaker • Leatherworker • Stone crafter • Weaver • Wood crafter • Trapper • Combat Skills • Siege operator • Sneak • Architecture • Wound dresser • Surgeon • Bone doctor • Suturer • Crutch-walker • Swimmer • Observer • Knapping

    * a stunning feel for spatial relationships
    * an amazing spatial sense
    * a great feel for the surrounding space
    * a good spatial sense
    * a questionable spatial sense
    * poor spatial senses
    * an atrocious spatial sense
    * no sense for spatial relationships

Kineshetic Sense
Most skills involving any movement at all (lots of them), non-skilled tasks as well

    * an astounding feel for the position of own body
    * a great kinesthetic sense
    * a very good sense of the position of own body
    * a good kinesthetic sense
    * a meager kinesthetic sense
    * a poor kinesthetic sense
    * a very clumsy kinesthetic sense
    * an unbelievably atrocious sense of the position of own body

Linguistic Ability
Persuader • Negotiator • Liar • Intimidator • Conversationalist • Comedian • Flatterer • Consoler • Pacifier • Leader • Teacher

    * an astonishing ability with languages and words
    * a great affinity for language
    * a natural inclination toward language
    * a way with words
    * a little difficulty with words
    * little linguistic ability
    * very little linguistic ability
    * difficulty with words and language

Musicality
Nothing yet
    * an astonishing knack for music
    * a great musical sense
    * a natural ability with music
    * a feel for music
    * an iffy sense for music
    * little natural inclination toward music
    * next to no natural musical ability
    * absolutely no feel for music at all

Empathy
Animal trainer • Animal caretaker • Wound dresser • Persuader • Negotiator • Judge of intent • Conversationalist • Flatterer • Consoler • Pacifier • Leader • Teacher

    * an absolutely remarkable sense of others' emotions
    * a great sense of empathy
    * a very good sense of empathy
    * an ability to read emotions fairly well
    * poor empathy
    * a very bad sense of empathy
    * next to no empathy
    * the utter inability to judge others' emotions

Social Awareness
Persuader • Negotiator • Judge of intent • Organizer • Liar • Conversationalist • Flatterer • Consoler • Pacifier • Leader • Teacher

    * a shockingly profound feel for social relationships
    * a great feel for social relationships
    * a very good feel for social relationships
    * a good feel for social relationships
    * a meager ability with social relationships
    * a poor ability to manage or understand social relationships
    * a lack of understanding of social relationships
    * an absolute inability to understand social relationships




PERSONALITY TRAITS

Dwarven personalities are determined by a set of traits. They are different than, but similar to Attributes.
Personality traits are shown in the dwarf's "thoughts and preferences" description page.
They can affect which social skills a dwarf trains during conversation.
Perhaps they affect positive/negative thoughts from social interactions (including "give food" and "give water" nursing tasks), and whether they choose to socialize. Perhaps also how quickly they get frustrated from not being able to do things.


ACHIEVEMENT_STRIVING
ACTIVITY_LEVEL
ADVENTUROUSNESS
ALTRUISM
ANGER
ANXIETY
ARTISTIC_INTEREST
ASSERTIVENESS
CAUTIOUSNESS
CHEERFULNESS
COOPERATION
DEPRESSION
DUTIFULNESS
EMOTIONALITY
EXCITEMENT_SEEKING
FRIENDLINESS
GREGARIOUSNESS
IMAGINATION
IMMODERATION
INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY
LIBERALISM
MODESTY
ORDERLINESS
SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS
SELF_DISCIPLINE
SELF_EFFICACY
STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS       
SYMPATHY    
TRUST
VULNERABILITY


Source for all of the above:  Magma wiki. 

Our debate starts with Mining.  On core attributes, it should be highly dependant on strength, toughness and endurance while at the same time increasing them.  However, it should decrease disease resistance from the amount of dust inhaled.  Agility, would probably not be affected, unless there was a cave in the dwarf had to dodge.  Recuperation, also need not be affected by mining.

A mixture of "a stunning lack of analytical ability" "no patience at all" and "no sense for spatial relationships" should have the ability to cause 1 tile cave in's over the dwarf if he's mining.  While a high CAUTIOUSNESS should defend against that.

[Snook]

Our debate starts with Mining.  On core attributes, it should be highly dependant on strength, toughness and endurance while at the same time increasing them.  However, it should decrease disease resistance from the amount of dust inhaled.  Agility, would probably not be affected, unless there was a cave in the dwarf had to dodge.  Recuperation, also need not be affected by mining.

I like this, though agility should increase slightly (you try crawling through a mine and not getting better at maneuvering in general.)

A mixture of "a stunning lack of analytical ability" "no patience at all" and "no sense for spatial relationships" should have the ability to cause 1 tile cave in's over the dwarf if he's mining.  While a high CAUTIOUSNESS should defend against that.

I disagree. Random, periodic cave-ins over a dwarf would be annoying and not fun or Fun. I'd be more OK with it if it taught them to be more cautious, reducing further cave-ins after the first (if they lived.) Make them become paranoid too, if it happens a lot... Paranoia leading to faster tantrums/insanity, of course.

[dree12]

I don't see what the point of this is. The attributes and what skills they affect are quite well chosen, IMO. But that might just be my understanding of the post. What is your goal in this?

Also, Mining currently is affected by Strength, Agility, Endurence, and Toughness, according to the bug tracker.

[Qloos]

I don't see what the point of this is. The attributes and what skills they affect are quite well chosen, IMO. But that might just be my understanding of the post. What is your goal in this?

Two goals:

• The community will better understand how these features interact with each other.
• Quality feedback and ideas for toady about how these features could be changed or modified.

[dree12]

Yes, but it's mostly already on the wiki. Why start from scratch when you can use what Toady posted?

Mining affects Strength, Agility, Toughness, and Endurence (as I said before), and as it's a military skill, it's unlikely to change.

[Qloos]

If this thread had a sub title, it would be "Pretty cool, but what if?"  So let me carry that on into a sentence.  Mining is affected by all those things you just said, and that's pretty cool. But what if dwarfs with a high ORDERLINESS were to haul away rocks he mines automaticly to any stock stockpile available.

[dennislp3]

If this thread had a sub title, it would be "Pretty cool, but what if?"  So let me carry that on into a sentence.  Mining is affected by all those things you just said, and that's pretty cool. But what if dwarfs with a high ORDERLINESS were to haul away rocks he mines automaticly to any stock stockpile available.

Then he would never get done....as the haulers are supposed to do that...and he would be to busy traveling to get mining done. Granted I think most of the mental stats are pretty low key right now because the system was merely put in place and little else....cant wait to see it expanded.

[dree12]

I don't see why that should be, however. It's writing 500 different dwarf AIs to accomplish something only marginally visible. A dwarf with high ORDERLINESS would only act such during conversation, skill usage, and some easily calculatable algorithms, as to avoid writing a new ORDERLINESS>80 AI. Dwarf Fortress is not a human, and programming it as such would be a nightmare of code duplication.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The action you're missing is DOING THEIR FUCKING JOB.

[NW_Kohaku]

Actually, I have no idea what the physical attributes are tied to, can someone show me a list?

[Mason11987]

Actually, I have no idea what the physical attributes are tied to, can someone show me a list?

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Attributes

[NW_Kohaku]

Actually, I have no idea what the physical attributes are tied to, can someone show me a list?

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Attributes

That doesn't help any, it only shows the Soul Attributes... I've never seen anything saying what skills train what Physical Attributes, and if Physical Attributes have special effects on certain skills.

And I was the one that linked the Toady quote to that wiki article in the first place...

[Mason11987]

Actually, I have no idea what the physical attributes are tied to, can someone show me a list?

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Attributes

That doesn't help any, it only shows the Soul Attributes... I've never seen anything saying what skills train what Physical Attributes, and if Physical Attributes have special effects on certain skills.

And I was the one that linked the Toady quote to that wiki article in the first place...

You're right, my bad.  You should make an ID.