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[monk12]

I think that rat_pack meant was that America started as a constitutional republic and ultimately shifted to a democratic republic, not that constitutional republics are things that America started.

[rat_pack40]

I think that rat_pack meant was that America started as a constitutional republic and ultimately shifted to a democratic republic, not that constitutional republics are things that America started.

Thank you.
I though I had worded it in a way that was understandable, but I may have been mistaken.
And from what I've seen, America isn't shifting towards a democratic republic, it's shifting more in the direction of a monarchy, with the president being handed entirely too much power.
I'd personally have a weak federal gov't, and strong state gov'ts, like it was supposed to be, looking at the constitution.

[Shrugging Khan]

Americans discussing politics always turns so bland and petty and stale... 

[rat_pack40]

Americans discussing politics always turns so bland and petty and stale... 

I know we get boring, especially with politics.
Everyone has some generic opinion, at least when viewed from the outside.
I try not to fall in to any of the voter ruts, don't call myself a democrat or republican, don't go for the green party, libertarians, conservatives, liberals, or any other cookie cutter voter group.
When I look on American politics, even I get bored.
Nothing ever changes for the better, America just slips further into debt.
But, I digress.
Armchair Politics should be saved for a dedicated forum, and not clutter Toady's.

More OT:
I wouldn't say DF fits in to any real political system. It really takes from all of them, if you look deep enough.
The only one that doesn't really fit is capitalism, and that's mostly because Toady hasn't added it in yet. Free market economics should come in to play sooner or later, when caravans are more sophisticated. But until then, I will be the most insane dictator my dwarfs will ever see.

[Tiphareth]

Guys, guys. Communism and Socialism is not the same thing, seriously.

[Solace]

Considering the average morality rate in a dwarf fortress, it probably can't be considered a successful socialist/communist anything, let alone a utopia of any sort.

[MaDeR Levap]

Oh dear. Political topic? Doom, I say. Doom.

(Some crap about Hitler and Stalin)

While Hitler is associated with extreme right and Stalin with extreme left, its true that practical differences was cosmetic. Both systems was totalitarian and evil.

So they set up a number of fake terrorist attacks

Oh, another retarded conspiracy theorist. But this is what is expected on Internetz. By the way, USA did land on the Moon.

And while we are at it, I consider USA to be duoparty system: two parties that exchanges power from time to time, mercilessly destroying in any way any thrid option. Democracy? Republic? Good laugh. Only freedom of speech helps you all to not fall in some autoritarian regime.

(Fortress as corporation)

Oh yes. This is best match for this unholy bag of economical and political concepts that (not) function in DF.

Considering the average morality rate in a dwarf fortress, it probably can't be considered a successful socialist/communist anything.

FIFY.

[Shrugging Khan]

(Some crap about Hitler and Stalin)

While Hitler is associated with extreme right and Stalin with extreme left, its true that practical differences was cosmetic. Both systems was totalitarian and evil.

EEEEEEEEVIL! The political system is EEEEEEEVIL!

So tell me: More SATAN EVIL or VAMPIRES RAPING CHILDREN evil? 

[rat_pack40]

VAMPIRES RAPING CHILDREN

I see you've read something by Anne Rice!

I kid, I kid.

That sounds more like her work under the name "Anne Rampling".

[Lord Dakoth]

Oh, another retarded conspiracy theorist. But this is what is expected on Internetz. By the way, USA did land on the Moon.

THAT WAS THE COMMUNISTS

...Ahem.

The political system of the United States most closely resembles two monkeys flinging shit at each other.

The primary goal of each major party is only to dethrone the other. Only a minority of politicians stand for ideals, and most of them fade into obscurity. The whole shabang is more of "Red Team vs. Blue Team" or "Elephants vs. Donkeys" than politics. It's not about what you think is best for the country, it's about whether you get reelected or not.

[MaDeR Levap]

So tell me: More SATAN EVIL or VAMPIRES RAPING CHILDREN evil? 

More like "shooting in the back of head next to opening of mass grave " evil. Satan is in fact unnecessary - real evil is done by humans.

[Marconius]

In a communist society, everyone does their job and puts all of their hard work (food/furniture) together before sharing it equally with all members of the society regardless of whether anyone else works or not.

I'm fairly sure that's not how communism works, actually.

[Firehound]

Hitler=facism.
Facism =/= communism

Cummunism= Stalin.

Most players are more like Stalin. Random killings, often of nobles.

DF is what communism is idealy. Everyone working for the common good, living in equally ornate rooms.

Then you have nobles, who change from the easy communism to a annoying monarchy.

Communism is relatively easy to code.

Capitalism is a pain in the arse.

[Shrugging Khan]

If communism was easy to code, it'd be easy to implement in real life. Since, you know..."planned economy" really does have the "plan" (or "programme", as in "programming", as in "coding", as in "code") as its central piece.
Capitalism is actually quite simple to code on a certain level (theoretically), as long as you can manage some kind of semi-intelligent software that evolves in accordance to some reasonable principles of mutation and selection.

In a communist society, everyone does their job and puts all of their hard work (food/furniture) together before sharing it equally with all members of the society regardless of whether anyone else works or not.

I'm fairly sure that's not how communism works, actually.

That's pretty much the shortest path to how communism can fail, actually - by simply equating it with socialism on all levels.

More like "shooting in the back of head next to opening of mass grave " evil. Satan is in fact unnecessary - real evil is done by humans.

"Evil" is in fact unnecessary since it's an entirely subjective and theological rather than an ethical attribute. Neither the Stalinist system nor Stalin himself were evil. The system was simply badly designed, and Stalin too believed he was doing his best. Seen from his eyes, what he did was probably entirely reasonable and necessary.

Sure, the outcome was pretty craptastic, but that doesn't make the process that led to it or the parts thereof "evil" in any sense.

[MaDeR Levap]

More like "shooting in the back of head next to opening of mass grave " evil. Satan is in fact unnecessary - real evil is done by humans.

"Evil" is in fact unnecessary since it's an entirely subjective and theological rather than an ethical attribute.

Moral relativism does not contradict considering something as "evil" - without any religious overtones. And concept of "evil" have very much to do with ethic.

Neither the Stalinist system nor Stalin himself were evil.

Disagree. Most people that does bad things knows what they do very well.

The system was simply badly designed,

Concept of communism is and was forever doomed to be ideal in theory and creating atrocites when trying to deploy it in practice. Significant part of world tried this in last century - and every such country failed to deliver promised land. Not only that - in most cases these delivered many, many deaths and suffering. Case closed. Of course, there will be always folks in denial ("this was not true communism" crap).

and Stalin too believed he was doing his best. Seen from his eyes, what he did was probably entirely reasonable and necessary.

Oh riight. 

Sure, the outcome was pretty craptastic, but that doesn't make the process that led to it or the parts thereof "evil" in any sense.

Strangest argumentation that I seen in a while. We know that Stalinist system was evil pretty much by outcome.