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Author Topic: Autoplay and RPG.  (Read 1579 times)

Genybr

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Autoplay and RPG.
« on: July 25, 2010, 05:20:31 am »

Remark: Ok, I am noob in DF. I see, this game is hard for startup but nice when going Ok.
Also, I don't know english language anyhow.

Overview:
The DF is hard to startup and it has no normal AI blocks for Adventure mode. But we can see: this game is item class based game, so it is not heavy problem.
As I see main problems is:
1) No tutorial for noobs or on-play help (I hadn't see it for first 5 days. Also, I can't use it because remark's line 2.)
2) No good AI for Adventure mode: as I had see it's no AI activity (except attacks) without player's help.

Suggestions:
Add 4 stat.bars (for each and every element of life of character)
- Fear
- Respest
- Boredom
- Loyality
Add Bulletin Board for characters (boards: own, work, etc.)
Add Orders
- "Do not do anything here!"
- "Probably aviable".
Add For every character - local map.
Add For every skill - typical order stamp sets.
Add All skills for Adventurer mode.

Stats
Fear is generated by some probably bad: pain, hunger, boredom increasing, etc.
If %object% make some bad to %class% all objects of %class% in fear of it.
If %object% make some good to %class% all objects of %class% in losing fear of it.

Respect is generated by some actions that maked for character from other. If quest failed respect failed too.

Boredom is generated by unlike actions as sleeping, working not by likeness or skills, no any work, etc. If charcter bored enough it can start some order, which making is had lesser "boredom" status. If character do that it likes then it can make is so long as only it can (till hunger or thirst get him off to food or it falls asleep).
So, it's no need to player to play in sims. And sometime charcters can play without player (It's brilliant for play on one map with AI city).

Loyality is generated as statistic function. It's just "personal life satisfaction": difference between "best and medium" and "actual" work, health, boredom and etc satisfaction. If it's no difference - it is best.

If somebody's Respect+fear is not enough then character will make no thatbody's actions.
If loyality is low then character may leave his plase itself to other plase.

PS: How about to play "Fortress mode" in "Adventurer" mode? Just be respectable and save the loyality!

Bulletin Board
BB is main part for automated playback. It is limited by q'ty of posts (many new & no asks? Forget it!).
It had 3 parts (own, work, etc) and 3 modes (for me, to me, from me)
- own.
It is interests and possibilities of a character. So, it may want to own a gobblet or a coffin. Or make. Or present to someone. Or build a wall/crush the wall/build a well.
In this part only character's body and skill bulletins and stamps are aviable.
- work.
It is interests and possibilities of a chracter's workplase. Character may no need of stone blocks or logs but it is needed for work completion.
- etc.
It is any other orders and stamps.

Bulletin selection is calculating: estimated profit and losses.
Note: Death is 100% loss only of EXPECTED profit from future (so bored and low-loyaled char can do suicide). So, if profit from death will be highter then expected profit from life...

"Stamp" - is ordering shedule. It may be "get log-make bed-place in room", "if no %need% aviable make an own adversiment!", "can't make itself? Say your ad. to all who you know!" or building sequense "dig from here 3 forward and 3 left - it's a room", "room must be in 1 tile from Probably Aviable corridor", etc.
If char don't understand adversiment or it's loyality to asker low it will forget ad. as soon as possible.

Orders
- "Do not do anything here!" is prevent to damage your structures and project orders from adequate, feared or loyal characters. All other (inc. that who is do not know your order) will ignore this order.
- "Probably aviable" is need to create a group of strustures. So, it like as puzzle: it need something in someplase to do it's own etc work.

Character's local map
It is need to do single character possible to make his work himself without any player helpings. Also it can make realistic RTS: some figts on your side, some flees, some leave you and built their own outpost.
Not very need but will be nice for illusion of an alive world.

Stamps.
Stamps is the BB posts which contains orders "to do". It is mastered by skills of Character but some stamps may be not from character's skill:
Farmer can built a field. He cannot dig, but know the field stamp. So he will ask somebody do make needed stamp. When it will be done farmer will make the field.

Stamps may be created by player (as macros), or be "reserched" by character (as classic reserch tree from Civilization). Char can know what it need without skills, but it cannot make that or reserch better variants, only copy trained stamps.

All skills in Adv. mode
It's need just for RPG. Why player cannot be a professional fiherdwarf or engraver?
As possibility: get Adventurer mode to "Fortress" mode rails.

Endind:
So, it's all.
Where the "noob learning"? It's already included: AI knows what it is need to do. So novice player can just look for it's Fortress (or settlement) live and works. Look and learn.
After that - player can go to Adventurer mode and roleplay the farmer or engraver to look a live as it is.
And after all of that, by knowing how-to and what-to player can make his own loyal party and go to build his own Fortress or settlement.

.......As picture:
Farmer: (oh, I am bored and want to work!) Hey guys, I want work, but I need a underground cave to make the field.
All: ?
Miner: (oh, I am bored and want to work!) Ok, I'll dig it! What and where?
Farmer: Don't know, but 3x3 I need.
Miner: Ok, 3x3. Any one, architector?
Farmer: (exp. respect 1 to miner)
Arch: Wassup?
Miner: It's work: need to build an underground room 3x3. Where? (exp. respect 1 to Arch)(exp fear 1 to Farmer)
Arch: Here. (oh, that was boring) (fear +1 to miner)
Miner: Thanks! (respect +1 to Arch).
Miner: (Yeah! Work!) Ok! Complete! (fear -1 to Farmer)
Farmer: Thank you! (respect +1 to miner)
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2010, 09:06:46 am »

OK, I can't read quite a bit of what you wrote, but I'll say some general things about this:

First, before making any suggestion, you might want to check the devpages, because adding in adventurer skills actually is already the next item on the checklist for things to add to the game.  (You should also do a forum search to see if others have made this exact same suggestion before.)

Second, it's really probably best you sepnd at least a month reading the boards before you start trying to suggest changes to the game.  It's not just plain polite to listen to other people before putting in your own two cents, but it gives you a better idea of what sort of game most of the other players are looking for.

Thirdly, there is no manual.  Toady is probably never going to make one, no matter how much anyone asks.  There is a wiki.  Use it, love it.  If there is something that you cannot figure out on the wiki, ask someone in the forums, and update the wiki so that the next person can figure these things out more easily.

Now, as for specifics, I am not understanding exactly what you are talking about with this bulletin board idea, but it seems as though you want player death to simply remove all your money... which is a problem of completely altering the "gritty realism" mood that this game wants to foster.  Yes, maybe that's the sort of thing you expect from most modern RPGs, but again, you might want to consider what sort of game the people already playing this game enjoy before you suggest changing it.

I have only the slimmest clue of what you are talking about with "stamps", but this seems like you want to have some sort of civilization tech tree, and essentially the ability to call in favors from doing quests to make other people build things like farms for your adventurer... which, again, means you aren't reading the devpages, because the ability to make your own farm is actually part of the next expected set of updates.

I'm not figuring out what you are talking about with adding in new stats at all...
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

OmnipotentGrue

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2010, 09:10:17 am »

I believe at the end s/he was talking about a sort of an adventure mode played out within a living fortress and having several dwarves under your command, which, while it is a cool idea, seems to be a bit out of reach of DF at the moment.
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Josephus

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 09:12:39 am »

I believe at the end s/he was talking about a sort of an adventure mode played out within a living fortress and having several dwarves under your command, which, while it is a cool idea, seems to be a bit out of reach of DF at the moment.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that blurring the line between Fort Mode and Adventure Mode is a big part of what Toady's doing now. Soon, they'll only be distinct in the scope - Fort mode is general, Adventure mode is personal.

So, am I the only one who enjoyed reading the OP? I like grammatical errors and strange turns of phrase.
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RPG Interest Check Thread
i had the elves bring me two tigermen, although i forgot to let them out of the cage and they died : ( i was sad : (

cameron

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2010, 09:13:58 am »

in adventure mode ? can get you to the key bindings which really is all you need in an rpg
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OmnipotentGrue

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2010, 09:17:42 am »

I believe at the end s/he was talking about a sort of an adventure mode played out within a living fortress and having several dwarves under your command, which, while it is a cool idea, seems to be a bit out of reach of DF at the moment.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that blurring the line between Fort Mode and Adventure Mode is a big part of what Toady's doing now. Soon, they'll only be distinct in the scope - Fort mode is general, Adventure mode is personal.

So, am I the only one who enjoyed reading the OP? I like grammatical errors and strange turns of phrase.

Oh really? Neat-o, if Toady can do something like that, well...
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Vertigon

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2010, 10:41:44 am »

I believe at the end s/he was talking about a sort of an adventure mode played out within a living fortress and having several dwarves under your command, which, while it is a cool idea, seems to be a bit out of reach of DF at the moment.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that blurring the line between Fort Mode and Adventure Mode is a big part of what Toady's doing now. Soon, they'll only be distinct in the scope - Fort mode is general, Adventure mode is personal.

So, am I the only one who enjoyed reading the OP? I like grammatical errors and strange turns of phrase.

I rather liked it.
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eerr

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Re: Autoplay and RPG.
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 02:14:16 pm »

I believe at the end s/he was talking about a sort of an adventure mode played out within a living fortress and having several dwarves under your command, which, while it is a cool idea, seems to be a bit out of reach of DF at the moment.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that blurring the line between Fort Mode and Adventure Mode is a big part of what Toady's doing now. Soon, they'll only be distinct in the scope - Fort mode is general, Adventure mode is personal.

So, am I the only one who enjoyed reading the OP? I like grammatical errors and strange turns of phrase.
quite, fascinating.

The ideas laid out seem reasonable.

I'm actually interested in knowing/waiting for Toady to work on the adventure arc.
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