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Author Topic: Weaponry (for the new age)  (Read 1059 times)

Libelnon

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Weaponry (for the new age)
« on: June 13, 2010, 03:12:33 pm »

I understand weapons and the like need rebalancing at the moment, but I've got a suggestion as to how these weapons should work.

For starters, edge weapons should still rely slightly on their weight, especially if wielded two handed. An extremely sharp dagger is on par with a greatsword for cutting flesh, but not armor - perhaps the weight of a weapon should add to armor penetration?

Secondly, keeping with the idea of 'armor penetration', edged weapons should be more effective against flesh, whereas heavy weapons should batter through armor with ease. A knife is better at cutting meat than a maul, but a knife isn't so useful against meat in a breastplate.

Thirdly, weapons should be able to be dual wielded. I like to organise my dwarves into individual types - for example, footsoldiers are there to take the majority of beatings, and should be very tough and outfitted with heavy armor and shields. Berserkers, however, are my more agile dwarves, armed with their axes, leather armor and superior speed, and are meant to keep just out of harm's reach as they dole out punishment. You can guess that they take a mashing if they aren't skilled enough. But that being said - what is a berserker with only one axe? Naked. They should be able to wield two.

Also, the native dwarven weapons should be expanded. We have axes, swords, crossbows, hammers, maces and the like, but how about things such as mauls, which are big two handed hammers, two handed axes, greatswords, morningstars, and other hefty weapons and the like? I understand that the game has already got greatswords and greataxes, but these are too big to be handled by dwarves. Wouldn't the dwarves simply forge their own two-handed weapons? After all, you can probably get more strength into a sword swing if you use both hands.

Am I being followed here? Good.

Next, why do artefact weapons always follow the basic ideas for weaponry, and the dwarves aren't being creative? 'Artefact' weapons could be randomised to a point, for example a large axe with a spear-point on the top, so it can be used to skewer the enemy and hack their arms off?

And, finally, can shields have an impact on the wielder's accuracy with their weapons? I don't know about you, but if I had a huge tonne of steel strapped to one arm, i'd feel a bit more off balance when swinging a weapon. Perhaps this penalty could be mitigated as the user's aptitude with shields increases?
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Firehound

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2010, 03:39:00 pm »

Random-generated artifact weapons... I cannea wait for sword-chucks.
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cameron

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 10:00:53 pm »

     About armour penetration one thing that ought to be modeled if it isnt already is differant ways of attacking through it. For instance that great sword would not need to  actually cut through the armour due to its large size and weight, it could simply crush it whereas the dagger would have to be sharp enough to cut through or else find an opening for it to be able to do anything at all. That aside im for a balance of armour penetration

     I personally am against duel wielding (as in fight with two weapons simultaneously) as this would be terribly difficult IRL and seems like it might mess up whatever balance we have left in game. Saying that I would like to be able to have the dwarfs carry around multiple weapons for use at separate times perhaps when one is destroyed or stuck or when it situations change, giving marksdwarfs a dagger or short sword for instance so they can defend themselves in melee. this would be more important when weapons can take damage themselves.

Im pretty sure that dwarves are supposed to wield some of the vanilla weapons two handed at the moment  and random artifact weapons sounds awesome.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 10:36:36 pm »

Dual-wielding weapons is difficult, but it was used at times in the past, especially with knives.
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RavingManiac

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2010, 03:00:30 am »

Dual-wielding should probably be given its own skill set. Mental skills like Concentration and Observer should also factor in.
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Rowanas

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 03:11:15 am »

Wielding two axes
Is easier than with swords
Daggers are useless
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 03:59:25 am »

Historically there is the rapier-and-dagger style, with the dagger mainly being used for parrying and sometimes on the rebound. Maces were used too in other case, because a mace is a very simple weapon: it's just an elongation of your fist, and the angle of hitting doesn't really matter. It's the easiest weapon, so it doesn't matter if your off hand is a bit wobbly. Lastly, those who were going to wield something in their off hand usually preferred a shield, which can be used to bash as well in a pinch.

In any case, it would require special training to pull off. There probably need to be exponential penalties for weight, precision needed, and lack of skill for off-hand weapons... as well as a penalty for the main hand weapon and dodging, because the off hand is not available any more for balancing.
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Rowanas

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 07:56:45 am »

It's really not hard
Harder, true, but not that much
smallish penalties

Depends on weapon
As Silver rightly mentioned
still not very hard
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Funk

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 10:22:27 am »

when Dual-wielding you shoud just get a boot to the chanse of a counter attack.
your attack shoud be split with each weapon.
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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tsen

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2010, 10:18:41 am »

Fighting effectively with two weapons is extremely difficult. It *sounds* easy, but is in reality very, very hard.
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RavingManiac

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2010, 11:16:15 am »

What matters is not whether or not dual-wielding is effective, only that dual-wielding is possible. If you can send your champion, sword in each hand, golden armor gleaming in the sunlight, charging in a berserk rage towards the goblin army, only to have him skewered by an arrow, then so be it.
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Flaede

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2010, 11:24:05 am »

Historically there is the rapier-and-dagger style, with the dagger mainly being used for parrying and sometimes on the rebound. Maces were used too in other case, because a mace is a very simple weapon: it's just an elongation of your fist, and the angle of hitting doesn't really matter. It's the easiest weapon, so it doesn't matter if your off hand is a bit wobbly. Lastly, those who were going to wield something in their off hand usually preferred a shield, which can be used to bash as well in a pinch.

In any case, it would require special training to pull off. There probably need to be exponential penalties for weight, precision needed, and lack of skill for off-hand weapons... as well as a penalty for the main hand weapon and dodging, because the off hand is not available any more for balancing.

this. More than just a rebound, they were often designed to catch swords.
I've only ever seen them used in theatrical fighting, but the idea is fairly sound.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2010, 12:36:33 pm »

You can punch this things thought trough plate and chain armor if you are skilled.  A sai would be the eastern equivalent i guess.
 
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Rotten

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2010, 12:34:20 am »

Randomized artifacts could choose damage types from a list of types, and then a weapon related to that, and finally how it is delivered (hand-to hand, ranged, magic, etc). It would then format it OtherType-type1-type2-delivery.

Edge: Sword, axe
Stabbbing: Sword, dagger, spear
Blunt: Warhammer, maul
Crushing: Maul

Other type:
Heat: Firey, magma, semi-molten
Cold: Icey
Poison: Poisoned, slimey

Delivery methods:
Hand-to-hand (nothing displayed)
Ammo (bolts/arrows/darts/ballista arrows)


That could create stuff like:
Firey Hammer Sword
Poisoned Spear Bolts
Semi Molten Sword Maul
Slimey Axe Ballista Arrows (seriously, imagine a ballista shooting some axes)

Imagine the possibilities...
This is an adamantine semi-molten dagger axe. It menaces with spikes of cow bone and goblin skull.
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Libelnon

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Re: Weaponry (for the new age)
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2010, 04:20:04 pm »

Randomized artifacts could choose damage types from a list of types, and then a weapon related to that, and finally how it is delivered (hand-to hand, ranged, magic, etc). It would then format it OtherType-type1-type2-delivery.

Edge: Sword, axe
Stabbbing: Sword, dagger, spear
Blunt: Warhammer, maul
Crushing: Maul

Other type:
Heat: Firey, magma, semi-molten
Cold: Icey
Poison: Poisoned, slimey

Delivery methods:
Hand-to-hand (nothing displayed)
Ammo (bolts/arrows/darts/ballista arrows)


That could create stuff like:
Firey Hammer Sword
Poisoned Spear Bolts
Semi Molten Sword Maul
Slimey Axe Ballista Arrows (seriously, imagine a ballista shooting some axes)

Imagine the possibilities...
This is an adamantine semi-molten dagger axe. It menaces with spikes of cow bone and goblin skull.

I think 'semi molten' and the like'd have to wait for magic.

But a netherwood sword could be quite painful. Stabs you and then freezes the wound.
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