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[Aklyon]

DF has an ED page?

I'd rather not know.

Its not bad, I just looked. bit out of date, though. still has referances to the injury problems in 40D and ye olde carp of DOOM.

[Footkerchief]

Seriously, what in the world is going through dear little Impy's tiny little mind? I mean, not only is he undertaking a massive project to produce what will essentially be an inferior copy of a much better game, but he also pretty much preemptively killed 75% of the target audience by coming here and making an ass of himself. (Excellent PR strategy, genius! Your cookie is in the mail.)

Of course, on the plus side, something like this seems quite likely to acquire a small but incredibly volatile fanbase (A niche for everything, right?)... *gets popcorn* There's a lolcow born every minute, and I sense much Drama in Impaler's not-so-near future

(Speaking of Drama, has anybody updated DF's Encyclopędia Dramatica page yet? Fail of this magnitude deserves to be chronicled.)

This kind of cackling glee makes the community as a whole look bad, just FYI.

[Retro]

DF has an ED page?

I'd rather not know.

Its not bad, I just looked. bit out of date, though. still has referances to the injury problems in 40D and ye olde carp of DOOM.

Someone made a thread on it a month or two ago, I think. It's actually really not mocking at all.

[Mr Frog]

Seriously, what in the world is going through dear little Impy's tiny little mind? I mean, not only is he undertaking a massive project to produce what will essentially be an inferior copy of a much better game, but he also pretty much preemptively killed 75% of the target audience by coming here and making an ass of himself. (Excellent PR strategy, genius! Your cookie is in the mail.)

Of course, on the plus side, something like this seems quite likely to acquire a small but incredibly volatile fanbase (A niche for everything, right?)... *gets popcorn* There's a lolcow born every minute, and I sense much Drama in Impaler's not-so-near future

(Speaking of Drama, has anybody updated DF's Encyclopędia Dramatica page yet? Fail of this magnitude deserves to be chronicled.)

This kind of cackling glee makes the community as a whole look bad, just FYI.

Urp! That totally wasn't my intention! I *am* pretty amused by this, but "cackling glee" is far from what I feel, and if that's the impression I gave, I'm truly sorry.

Also, I sincerely hope nobody would be shortsighted enough to judge an entire forum based on an idiot's single post

[DalGren]

The last time I facepalmed this hard at a single person was when I discovered the CWCki.

Wow, Impaler might be an ass, but that's too much, poor guy.

The ED page of DF is pretty much a description of the game without limits on memes and expletives, nothing really offensive about it.

[Mr Frog]

The last time I facepalmed this hard at a single person was when I discovered the CWCki.

Wow, Impaler might be an ass, but that's too much, poor guy.

The ED page of DF is pretty much a description of the game without limits on memes and expletives, nothing really offensive about it.

Ugh. Agreed. Y'know, I should really learn to think before I post. *Tucks tail between legs, retreats into corner*

[Brandon816]

Heh, I renamed a dwarf Impaler and killed him with spawned magma using dfhack, which originated from working on Impaler's visualizer. I love irony.

[Jackrabbit]

Heh, I renamed a dwarf Impaler and killed him with spawned magma using dfhack, which originated from working on Impaler's visualizer. I love irony.

That's... really creepy dude. And kinda pathetic. He's gone now, let that be the end of it.

[Mr Frog]

Heh, I renamed a dwarf Impaler and killed him with spawned magma using dfhack, which originated from working on Impaler's visualizer. I love irony.

...
I'm not sure if that's incredibly funny or incredibly worrying. And this is me we're talking about (points to above idiotic post)

[Retro]

Heh, I renamed a dwarf Impaler and killed him with spawned magma using dfhack, which originated from working on Impaler's visualizer. I love irony.

Perhaps this kind of sentiment isn't really appropriate.

Ah, double-ninja'd.

[Scarpa]

While I never liked Impaler's general attitude about donating and the 'sycophantic' community, he did kind of have a point about the UI.

I know the game is .31 and I absolutely don't begrudge the work done on simulation aspects of the game, but the UI is getting more worrying. The military features in general, while a great mechanic, are presented raw and from a programmer/mathematician's mind. You can either understand the complicated machinery and learn to manipulate it or you can stare hopelessly at an opaque contraption that appears to be created by mad scientists.

I think Impaler started to see the latter. He always referred to the learning 'cliff' of the game and I think as a design/UI oriented programmer he eventually took offense, and perhaps felt it his duty to 'the users' to (re)make a more accessible game in DF's mold.

The end result is loltragic but I hope Toady eventually realizes he needs to spend a LOT of care on the UI when it comes so it presents the enormous complexity of the game in a way that truly complements and matches the quality of the simulations. No pressure or anything, Toady. You do have a lifetime, use it!

[sweitx]

While I never liked Impaler's general attitude about donating and the 'sycophantic' community, he did kind of have a point about the UI.

I know the game is .31 and I absolutely don't begrudge the work done on simulation aspects of the game, but the UI is getting more worrying. The military features in general, while a great mechanic, are presented raw and from a programmer/mathematician's mind. You can either understand the complicated machinery and learn to manipulate it or you can stare hopelessly at an opaque contraption that appears to be created by mad scientists.

I think Impaler started to see the latter. He always referred to the learning 'cliff' of the game and I think as a design/UI oriented programmer he eventually took offense, and perhaps felt it his duty to 'the users' to (re)make a more accessible game in DF's mold.

The end result is loltragic but I hope Toady eventually realizes he needs to spend a LOT of care on the UI when it comes so it presents the enormous complexity of the game in a way that truly complements and matches the quality of the simulations. No pressure or anything, Toady. You do have a lifetime, use it!

Problem #1:
The game is still in ALPHA.  Namely all the current UI are, effectively, place-holders.  Creating a more user-friendly UI (which would likely lock down some features) would result in Toady potentially needing to tear-down the whole thing later down the road in order to add more features.

On the PM on what Impaler said was, I have only one word: Despicable.

In regard to the interface issues, yes, it is very daunting.  But so is many simulation game that seek to capture the full complexity of the very item they're trying to simulate.  And this is not including the sheer complexity that is DF.

Even if Impaler is a design/UI oriented programmer, he has no right to make comment like that, and he has NO RIGHT to steal something that is the culmination of one's life's work.

[Mr Frog]

I'm personally not worried about the UI -- I think Toady's demonstrated that he can manage himself fairly well, and when the UI becomes too much of an issue, we'll get a nice little overhaul and go home happy. While the interface could use a lot of work, it still does a pretty good job for now. It's sort of a shame about Impaler, really (all trollish chucklehucking aside). He clearly has a lot of passion and dedication, as well as some sense of how games should be made -- why he'd decide to waste it on a crappy DF clone (which now has *very* bad PR right off the bat, too say the least) instead of an original venture baffles me. If he ever eventually decides to make Khazad "his own" game instead of a barely-legal knockoff, I might even give it a second glance, but for now, it's just a vague attempt at a DF clone which I will continue to watch with morbid fascination while making overly-long run-on sentences. Even if it does turn out to be better (let's be optimistic, here!), I'd probably still give it a pass. Stealing code is wrong, yo

[sweitx]

I'm personally not worried about the UI -- I think Toady's demonstrated that he can manage himself fairly well, and when the UI becomes too much of an issue, we'll get a nice little overhaul and go home happy. While the interface could use a lot of work, it still does a pretty good job for now. It's sort of a shame about Impaler, really (all trollish chucklehucking aside). He clearly has a lot of passion and dedication, as well as some sense of how games should be made -- why he'd decide to waste it on a crappy DF clone (which now has *very* bad PR right off the bat, too say the least) instead of an original venture baffles me. If he ever eventually decides to make Khazad "his own" game instead of a barely-legal knockoff, I might even give it a second glance, but for now, it's just a vague attempt at a DF clone which I will continue to watch with morbid fascination while making overly-long run-on sentences. Even if it does turn out to be better (let's be optimistic, here!), I'd probably still give it a pass. Stealing code is wrong, yo

Yes, I would argue for a single person development, DF's UI is at least useable.  And seriously, when you need to control that many different things using JUST keyboard input, while trying to maintain some consistency in interface with any potential future additions, you'll not have a very polished UI.

P.S. Looking at Khazad's... um... road-map (if you can call it that), I've seen similarly structured road-map from student projects.
Almost all of which crashed-n-burned.
That's not a plan, that's a wish-list.

[Mr Frog]

I'm personally not worried about the UI -- I think Toady's demonstrated that he can manage himself fairly well, and when the UI becomes too much of an issue, we'll get a nice little overhaul and go home happy. While the interface could use a lot of work, it still does a pretty good job for now. It's sort of a shame about Impaler, really (all trollish chucklehucking aside). He clearly has a lot of passion and dedication, as well as some sense of how games should be made -- why he'd decide to waste it on a crappy DF clone (which now has *very* bad PR right off the bat, too say the least) instead of an original venture baffles me. If he ever eventually decides to make Khazad "his own" game instead of a barely-legal knockoff, I might even give it a second glance, but for now, it's just a vague attempt at a DF clone which I will continue to watch with morbid fascination while making overly-long run-on sentences. Even if it does turn out to be better (let's be optimistic, here!), I'd probably still give it a pass. Stealing code is wrong, yo

Yes, I would argue for a single person development, DF's UI is at least useable.  And seriously, when you need to control that many different things using JUST keyboard input, while trying to maintain some consistency in interface with any potential future additions, you'll not have a very polished UI.

P.S. Looking at Khazad's... um... road-map (if you can call it that), I've seen similarly structured road-map from student projects.
Almost all of which crashed-n-burned.
That's not a plan, that's a wish-list.

Took the words right out of my mouth
Actually, now that you mention the student-project thing, I'm really wondering how old Impaler is. Looking back at myself a few years back, this level of idiocy/egotism would have seemed completely normal. Betcha in a couple years he'll look back on this and laugh cringe.

BTW, lmao at him trying to get Footie on board. Did he honestly think Footkerchief anybody would get involved in this? Everything about those PMs blares FIASCO in giant neon letters. Also... eeeewwww. Reading those PMs makes me feel vaguely incriminated for some reason. They're so... scummy.