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Author Topic: Effect of quality on mechanics  (Read 1046 times)

Doppel

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Effect of quality on mechanics
« on: May 13, 2010, 10:33:24 pm »

I know quality of mechanisms (likely) doesn't have any effect on performance of levers, or so it says on the wiki (dunno if this applies to the mechanisms in whatever is linked to said levers or pressure plates, i assume it does). This though is the least problematic question as its not much of a hassle to simply use only masterwork mechanisms (build out of the same material, to be on the super safe side). A bigger question is whether quality of the building designed (by the building designer labor), say a bridge, has any effect on how much time (steps) said building takes to open and close. I made a very small test where i linked a pressure plate (to trigger when 1-7 water touches it) to a door, grate, hatch, floodgate and bridge and then dropped a 1 tile of water on it and came to the conclusion that (empirically at least) the bridge and floodgate didn't at all open and close simultaneously (even though the wiki states both have a delay of 100 steps, which i assume is correct?). And if i remember correctly the grate, hatch and door also didn't open and close at exactly the same times. If quality absolutely does not effect this then maybe something else does? Maybe distance between pressure plate and said buildings affects their performance?
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Quietust

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 10:45:55 pm »

Mechanism quality has never had an effect on anything other than weapon traps.

The only thing that affects activation delays on bridges and such is the order in which they are built, and that's only a 1 frame difference (i.e. either 100 frames or 101 frames).
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Doppel

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 10:53:13 pm »

So, to clarify, if i build my floodgate first and then my bridge and both link them up to the same lever/pressure plate, the floodgate will have a 100 step delay and the bridge a 101 step delay? Also 1 "step" is one "frame" then (which is very confusing on wiki).
Thanks for the response.
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NecroRebel

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 01:22:42 am »

So, to clarify, if i build my floodgate first and then my bridge and both link them up to the same lever/pressure plate, the floodgate will have a 100 step delay and the bridge a 101 step delay? Also 1 "step" is one "frame" then (which is very confusing on wiki).
Thanks for the response.
No; the delay depends on what you build first, the lever/plate or the building. The order the "other" buildings are built, if there's more than one linked to the same lever, doesn't matter, except inasmuch as whether or not some get built before and after the mechanical building.

Basically, if you built a lever, then a floodgate and bridge, in that order, then linked them all up, the gate and bridge would have a 100-step delay. If you built the floodgate, the lever, and then the bridge, the gate would have a 101-step delay, while the bridge would have a 100-step delay. And if you built the bridge and floodgate, then the lever, both would have a 101-step delay.

Steps are not quite equivalent to frames. Regardless of other concerns, steps are the unit of time ingame; units move every x steps based on their speed, fluids move only when a step changes, it appears to take a certain number of steps to complete each job, and mechanical delays are measured in steps. I'm pretty sure that, since dwarves move every 10 steps unless they have an agility attribute, steps-per-frame-while-unpaused is not 1-to-1, as I'm pretty sure that dwarves don't cross 10 squares per second at 100 FPS. I could very well be wrong about that, though.
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thranguy

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 12:20:26 pm »

Don't dwarves see the mechanism in an active well, and get Good Thoughts if it's particularly high quality?
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Doppel

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 12:26:43 pm »

Thanks for the explanation, i do remember not having build my pressure plate first which explains the 1 step difference.
Basically i'll just have to keep in mind to build all my levers and pressure plates before building whatever needs to be linked to them if i want everything to work synchronized then.

If i may, another small somewhat related question; Are there any similar quirks affecting the working of screwpumps (the rate at which they pump water/magma) when linked to a powerplant?
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NecroRebel

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2010, 12:38:13 pm »

Don't dwarves see the mechanism in an active well, and get Good Thoughts if it's particularly high quality?
It isn't the mechanism as much as it is the value of the well. Mechanisms just happen to have an abnormally-high item value multiplier, so in low-quality wells they tend to be the biggest contributer to the well's value. A MW common-stone mechanism is worth 360, after all, while a common-stone block, wood bucket, and pig tail rope don't add up to that much even all together. If you're making a well with a gold block, silver bucket, and aluminum chain, though, the mechanism means less.

If i may, another small somewhat related question; Are there any similar quirks affecting the working of screwpumps (the rate at which they pump water/magma) when linked to a powerplant?
Not that I know of. A screw pump starts pumping as soon as it has power and can move fluid once per step.
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Corona688

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2010, 03:20:25 pm »

If i may, another small somewhat related question; Are there any similar quirks affecting the working of screwpumps (the rate at which they pump water/magma) when linked to a powerplant?
Their speed isn't affected by quality.

Screw pumps work really fast.  I mean really, super ultra fast, they move a whole 7/7 column of water at once if they can.  Think about it, when you've got a running pump stack, you're going to see 9/10 pumps sucking sludge nearly all the time until a little more water trickles in below it and gets blasted up the pump chain like a teleporting caffeine weasel.  The real limit of the speed is your water source.  Get a few levels below your river or whatever so pressure can bring in water fast enough to keep up with the pump.
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beorn080

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2010, 03:25:33 pm »

There is some basis for better mechanisms in bridges flinging things farther, but I don't know if there has been further testing of that.
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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2010, 05:34:44 pm »

I don't mean to hijack but what effect does mechanism quality have on weapon traps?  Damage, fire rate, jamming chance?  Does it also effect spikes and stone falls? 
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NecroRebel

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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2010, 05:51:10 pm »

I don't mean to hijack but what effect does mechanism quality have on weapon traps?  Damage, fire rate, jamming chance?  Does it also effect spikes and stone falls?
Accuracy, basically, with a bit of influence on damage; the trap's "weapon skill" is dependent on the mechanism's quality. Higher weapon skill, of course, increases the chance to land a successful hit, so mechanism quality affects that in turn. And since you need a weapon to hit in order to deal any damage at all, well, it affects that.

Spikes, IIRC, aren't affected by mechanism quality; the mechanisms for spike traps are only for linking it to the lever or pressure plate. Stonefall and cage traps are sort of all-or-nothing, so they aren't affected either.
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Re: Effect of quality on mechanics
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2010, 09:05:38 am »

@NecroRebel: Not buying this. Extensive testing in40d showed that the only thing influenced by mechanism quality is the chance of a weapon trap jamming. Toady also stated that "mechanism quality determines the skill with which the weapon is "swung" or "fired" by the weapon trap" but I could never reproduce that.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 09:10:46 am by blinking icons »
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