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[tieme]

Don't give up hope. For a while I thought my latest fortress was entirely without flux, only to discover a four z-level deep vein of marble 30-odd levels below the surface.

Yeah my first flux showed up 37 z levels below my fort, about 5 levels below my third cave system.  It was marble too .

By that time I had a HUGE stockpile of iron ready to be turned into steel so it was actually kind of nice.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Don't give up hope. For a while I thought my latest fortress was entirely without flux, only to discover a four z-level deep vein of marble 30-odd levels below the surface.

Yeah my first flux showed up 37 z levels below my fort, about 5 levels below my third cave system.  It was marble too .

By that time I had a HUGE stockpile of iron ready to be turned into steel so it was actually kind of nice.

I've never seen an embark with more than one sedimentary layer, so just about any flux below the first layer will be marble. Which is perfectly fine, because it has copper.

[Hyndis]

Or they were wiped out. It's happened to my worlds a couple times, though they were pocked worlds where I increased the number of titans. Not by much, but apparently 5 versus 3 makes a huge difference in what civs survive.

Pocket worlds are so tiny that anything goes. A medium region is almost guaranteed to have every civilization.

[TheMirth]

Counter question: OP are you on 40d or DF2010?

Anyway, iron for armour in DF2010 is a bad idea as it loses to Bronze weapons. In 40d, it would have been a good idea, but not in DF2010.

Haven't seen any goblins wielding bronze weapons yet. And Iron armor is considerably better than anything less than iron armor. Even copper armor is fairly impressive against copper weapons.

[Hyndis]

Counter question: OP are you on 40d or DF2010?

Anyway, iron for armour in DF2010 is a bad idea as it loses to Bronze weapons. In 40d, it would have been a good idea, but not in DF2010.

Haven't seen any goblins wielding bronze weapons yet. And Iron armor is considerably better than anything less than iron armor. Even copper armor is fairly impressive against copper weapons.

Yup. You basically want to have weapons and armor that are at least 1 grade higher than the equipment of your opponents. If they're using iron then you want steel.

Iron weapons against iron armor is about equal. Iron against copper, iron wins. Iron against steel, steel wins.

[TheMirth]

Iron armor works as well against iron weapons as bronze armor does against iron weapons. Or at least the difference is negligible. The difference is that bronze weapons work considerably better against iron armor. So if goblins don't have anything better than iron weapons, then iron armor will work fine if you have a shortage of tin or flux. Otherwise, steel armor is better than iron armor or if you're facing humans, bronze armor should be employed over iron armor as well.

[Psieye]

Hmm... so that's...

Bronze Wep > Iron Arm
Bronze Wep > Bronze Arm

Iron Wep < Iron Arm
Iron Wep <  Bronze Arm

assuming all weapons are slicing/piercing type, not crushing. Iron really does suck as a weapon metal now...

[Thorik]

I only embark on maps with flux/sedimentary.  Btw, I haven't played df2010 yet, whats better, bronze or steel?

[Hyndis]

Steel is the best easy to get material. After steel is of course adamantine (except for blunt weapons) or even slade, if you're lucky enough with a mood.

[Marconius]

I'm guessing even iron armor provides -some- protection against bronze/steel weapons. It's probably not a huge difference when compared to bronze or steel armor (actually, is bronze armor good?) and it's easier to find and smelt in most cases.

I've been quite fine equipping all my dwarves with iron armor so far, though granted, I haven't been fighting humans or massive goblin sieges.

[TheMirth]

I'll let zagibu's hard work show what I've been unable to convey.

Test method: 10 rounds of 1 vs 1.
Race: modded dwarf (average stats, removed intelligence tag, added noexert tag).
Equipment: attacker has full adamantine armor + weapon to be tested and vitim has full armor to be tested + wooden sword.
Displayed: hit ratio (green), light wounds (yellow), medium wounds (orange), heavy wounds (red)

	silver armor	copper armor	iron armor	bronze armor	steel armor	adamantine armor
silver hammer	21% 66% 31% 3%	20% 58% 41% 1%	17% 69% 30% 1%	14% 68% 31% 1%	18% 61% 37% 2%	5% 82% 18% 0%
copper hammer	17% 66% 32% 2%	17% 65% 32% 3%	15% 65% 33% 2%	16% 60% 39% 1%	15% 71% 28% 1%	4% 95% 4% 1%
iron hammer	17% 69% 29% 2%	11% 76% 22% 2%	13% 73% 25% 2%	13% 67% 31% 2%	13% 70% 28% 2%	4% 95% 5% 0%
bronze hammer	19% 67% 31% 2%	16% 66% 32% 2%	14% 70% 29% 1%	12% 76% 22% 2%	13% 74% 25% 1%	4% 90% 8% 2%
steel hammer	17% 71% 28% 1%	14% 65% 35% 0%	13% 71% 28% 1%	12% 74% 25% 1%	13% 68% 31% 1%	3% 94% 5% 1%
adamantine hammer	1% 99% 0% 1%	1% 100% 0% 0%	1% 99% 0% 1%	1% 99% 0% 1%	1% 100% 0% 0%	1% 98% 0% 2%

	silver armor	copper armor	iron armor	bronze armor	steel armor	adamantine armor
silver mace	18% 73% 25% 2%	16% 76% 22% 2%	13% 75% 23% 2%	12% 82% 16% 2%	15% 72% 26% 2%	6% 83% 16% 1%
copper mace	14% 84% 14% 2%	12% 75% 22% 3%	13% 73% 25% 2%	11% 77% 22% 1%	12% 79% 19% 2%	5% 83% 16% 1%
iron mace	16% 76% 23% 1%	12% 80% 19% 1%	11% 83% 15% 2%	10% 78% 20% 2%	12% 76% 23% 1%	4% 83% 16% 1%
bronze mace	17% 70% 29% 1%	12% 83% 15% 2%	12% 77% 22% 1%	12% 74% 25% 1%	11% 81% 18% 1%	6% 79% 20% 1%
steel mace	15% 81% 18% 1%	12% 76% 23% 1%	11% 78% 19% 3%	10% 85% 14% 1%	11% 82% 16% 2%	4% 85% 14% 1%
adamantine mace	1% 99% 0% 1%	1% 99% 0% 1%	1% 97% 0% 3%	1% 100% 0% 0%	1% 99% 0% 1%	1% 100% 0% 0%

	silver armor	copper armor	iron armor	bronze armor	steel armor	adamantine armor
silver spear	13% 67% 31% 2%	10% 65% 33% 2%	8% 72% 26% 2%	8% 73% 25% 2%	8% 70% 29% 1%	2% 74% 25% 1%
copper spear	8% 78% 21% 1%	8% 75% 24% 1%	7% 85% 14% 1%	7% 86% 13% 1%	7% 78% 20% 2%	2% 74% 22% 4%
iron spear	98% 0% 94% 6%	9% 63% 34% 3%	8% 72% 26% 2%	6% 83% 14% 3%	6% 86% 13% 1%	1% 77% 21% 2%
bronze spear	99% 0% 100% 0%	98% 0% 100% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	7% 74% 25% 1%	6% 85% 13% 2%	2% 68% 32% 0%
steel spear	99% 0% 90% 10%	99% 0% 100% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	8% 76% 23% 1%	2% 71% 27% 2%
adamantine spear	99% 1% 99% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	99% 0% 100% 0%	1% 71% 26% 3%

	silver armor	copper armor	iron armor	bronze armor	steel armor	adamantine armor
silver sword	3% 59% 23% 18%	9% 74% 17% 9%	3% 65% 19% 16%	3% 70% 17% 13%	3% 55% 27% 18%	1% 32% 46% 22%
copper sword	3% 65% 25% 10%	3% 66% 26% 8%	3% 66% 19% 15%	3% 55% 31% 14%	2% 52% 40% 8%	1% 36% 48% 16%
iron sword	98% 0% 11% 89%	9% 79% 2% 19%	2% 62% 3% 35%	2% 52% 4% 44%	2% 60% 7% 33%	1% 45% 14% 41%
bronze sword	98% 0% 17% 83%	100% 0% 20% 80%	99% 0% 6% 94%	2% 65% 2% 33%	2% 53% 6% 41%	2% 48% 8% 44%
steel sword	98% 0% 3% 97%	100% 0% 10% 90%	98% 4% 15% 81%	100% 0% 2% 98%	2% 50% 3% 47%	1% 43% 5% 52%
adamantine sword	98% 0% 16% 84%	100% 0% 31% 69%	98% 0% 8% 92%	99% 0% 21% 79%	100% 0% 5% 95%	1% 34% 3% 63%

	silver armor	copper armor	iron armor	bronze armor	steel armor	adamantine armor
silver axe	7% 60% 0% 40%	14% 18% 43% 39%	5% 51% 11% 38%	4% 50% 2% 48%	6% 69% 1% 30%	1% 10% 0% 90%
copper axe	5% 58% 6% 36%	4% 63% 0% 37%	4% 50% 2% 48%	4% 44% 0% 56%	4% 62% 3% 35%	1% 11% 2% 87%
iron axe	94% 0% 3% 97%	9% 28% 36% 36%	4% 46% 3% 51%	3% 50% 0% 50%	3% 42% 0% 58%	1% 19% 0% 81%
bronze axe	100% 0% 0% 100%	100% 0% 6% 94%	91% 0% 0% 100%	3% 48% 1% 51%	4% 58% 2% 40%	2% 13% 0% 87%
steel axe	97% 0% 8% 92%	100% 0% 0% 100%	97% 0% 0% 100%	96% 0% 0% 100%	4% 53% 4% 43%	1% 6% 0% 94%
adamantine axe	98% 0% 2% 98%	100% 0% 0% 100%	93% 15% 0% 85%	100% 0% 0% 100%	97% 0% 0% 100%	2% 10% 0% 90%

I'd say the issue is more that Iron weapons suck than that iron armor is good. However, since iron weapons do suck, iron armor is quite serviceable.

[JmzLost]

Looking at those tables again, copper armor is as good as, if not better than, iron armor.  Apparently, the new order is:

Armor:  Adamant > Steel > Bronze > Iron > Copper
Weapons:  Adamant > Steel > Bronze

Anything less than copper armor and bronze weapons is only good for fighting animals, or Elves.

JMZ