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Author Topic: Echoes of Imperium (4X Strategy Game)[Not Dead]  (Read 36873 times)

Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #180 on: January 02, 2011, 11:27:56 pm »

I like the tech trees so far. Just a minor nitpick - supersonic ballistics? Like 98% of modern guns? What were they using before that tech, bows and arrows?
Also, what's Moho?

Supersonic ballistics, like ultraexplosives are utter bullshit names I put down when I couldn't think of any cool sounding names for weapon improvments. Supersonic ballistics should probably be more like magnetic style railguns or something. Ultraexplosives I don't know what to do with at the moment.

Moho is another placeholder that comes from Mohorovičić discontinuity. Moho is where the crust meets the mantle. Pretty much anyone that hasn't played Total Annihilation probably has no idea why I used this term, so I'll probably just change the name to something like Borehole Construction.

Information in this thread was getting absolutely buried. My frequent megaposts and developer bloggings quickly cause everything to get lost. Even I forget where the hell some of the past conversations are, which is terrible since there is a goldmine of good ideas in here. I have everything compartmentalized in the new forums and I will be copy pasting a lot of what was said here and the many other forums I have topics in.

The other research stuff I'm going to copy and paste to the new forums I just made. [I'm sure many of you will recognize some similarities]

Quote
So you're going for the Foundation-like setting? I must say that I kind of liked the idea of starting on Earth better, mostly because this'd allow for a star map with distances and positions reflecting reality, and it's just something that I find appealing(the star systems themselves would be randomly generated all the same).

Accurate star maps sounds like a lot more work for me ;). As for starting on Earth, the choice is trivial. This game is more of a 4X engine at this point and almost nothing is hardcoded. This means I can easily have a scenario that has players starting on Earth and exploring, or another one with a totally different story with a different galaxy. The only reason I really want to finish of any stories is so that I can finally put an official name on this game.

New Forums

http://76.26.38.52/forum/index.php

Information in this thread was getting absolutely buried. My frequent megaposts and developer bloggings quickly cause everything to get lost. Even I forget where the hell some of the past conversations are, which is terrible since there is a goldmine of good ideas in here. I have everything compartmentalized in the new forums and I will be copy pasting a lot of what was said here and the many other forums I have topics in.

Also, get yourself registered Il Palazzo so I can give you modship.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 11:41:40 pm by Lap »
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #181 on: January 02, 2011, 11:32:17 pm »

Coming right up!
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mainiac

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #182 on: January 03, 2011, 03:36:32 am »

I find most tech systems annoying because they firstly fail to capture a feeling that some factions are seen as being at the center of technological research, secondly are usually make it so the rich get richer and thirdly usually have techs instantly spread when they are discovered.  I was pondering over this matter recently and think I have a system that might work well for your game.

Basically, there are two different ways that you can know a tech:
1) Being exposed to it "Spread"
2) Discovering it for yourself or duplicating someone else's discovery independently "Breakthroughs"

The vast majority of technology used everywhere is spread technology.  For any given tech you can only have a vreakthrough in a single location, so everywhere else, you will be using spread.  It's even possible to use a tech without ever discovering it by a breakthrough.  Once a tech is common enough, your people will be copying everyone else.  This spread happens without any player intervention even, but players can facilitate it.

The way that tech spread works is first all factions are given a technology score on a scale of 1 (backwards) to 5 (innovative).  This depends on their tech spending, how many labs they have, faction characteristics, etc.  This could be modified by any flavor characteristics, i.e. a faction might have a +1 to engineering tech but a -1 to planetology techs.  Then the game keeps tabs on the overall technological state of the universe.  The more labs and breakthroughs there are, the more advanced everybody gets.  This is represented by the overall tech level.  When your tech score and the tech level added together meet the requirements for a tech, it will spread to all your settlements after a few turns.  Every point that you exceed the requirements will cut a turn off of this time.

So suppose that there are two factions, the Alphas and the Betas.  The Alphas are a small factions with three labs while the Betas are a large faction with three labs.  Because the Alphas have a lot of labs compared to their size and they've got a faction characteristic, they are considered innovative (5) when it comes to engineering techs while the Betas are considered behind (2).  The overall tech level of the universe is currently 5.  Someone, it doesn't matter who, goes and invents robotics, which has a tech requirement of 6.  The Alphas have a score of 10, so robotics spreads to their territories in one turn and they can use it everywhere.  The Betas have a score of 7, so they can use this tech, but need to wait three turns for it to spread to them.  The next turn orbital engineering is invented with a requirement of 8.  The Alphas will have this tech after three turns but the Betas need to wait until they are more advanced.

The other side of the model is breakthrough.  This is the part that does take deliberate player intervention.  This required tasking a lab to the project and waiting for them to complete it.  When you have a breakthrough you can immediately use the technology, but only in the territory where it was invented.  It immediately will start to spread around the universe according to tech levels.

So what's the point of pursuing breakthroughs if everyone is going to just copy you?  Well, they get to copy you, but you get a slight advantage regarding that tech.  When you have a breakthrough for a tech, you get an advantage in spreading it.  First of all, a backwards faction that has a breakthrough gets a bonus to it's tech score regarding that tech.  This bonus is equal to (5-tech score)/2 rounded up.  So if the backwards Betas had been the ones to discover orbital engineering, it would have spread through their territory just one turn behind the Alphas.  Secondly, money poured into research increases your tech score, helping you to adapt further.  And thirdly, there is a further bonus of one level regarding a tech for territories on the same planet that the breakthrough occurred.

So if the Gammas with a tech score of advanced (4) discovered nano-engineering with a tech requirement of 11 on the planet Gamma Centauri, that tech would spread to all their territories on Gamma Centauri but wouldn't spread to any Alpha territory at all, giving the Gammas a monopoly on it.  On the other hand if the Betas had made the discovery, they would only be able to use it in the territory where it was discovered because their tech is too low to spread it, even on the same planet.  If the Alphas had made the discovery, then they would have monopoly on the one world they can use it and would be able to rest assured that it will take a long time for the tech to spread to the Gammas.

I think that with careful balancing, this system could do a good job of capturing the rare nature of the commodity knowledge in a feudal system.  Instead of being a tech sprint, you have a slow unpredictable grind.  The players can jockey for position but can't draw all that far ahead.  But even that narrow, hard earned lead will be valuable.  Meanwhile, there can be sanctuaries of knowledge that have special significance because they have the unique ability to use a technology, potentially for many turns.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #183 on: January 06, 2011, 08:51:41 pm »

I did some advertising for feedback on Reddit's gamedev subreddit, Battle for Wesnoth forums, LOVE forums, and BoardGameGeek and I've definitely seen a lot more spikes in board traffic (9 simultaneous users at one point). Unfortunately, there's still only four members and there's been fairly minimal feedback as a whole.

I suspect it will be this way until a playable version is released. Don't know if there's much else I can do about that except pick some of the simpler ideas at first to just try to push an alpha version out the door.

When I was younger I had a million ideas for new games and improving old ones and so did everyone else; we just never had the tools of know how to actual code a working game. Now I can code in any game mechanic imaginable, but am short on the feedback and ideas.
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mainiac

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #184 on: January 06, 2011, 09:46:46 pm »

I think part of the problem are that people on the internet are so used to being awash in suggestions and short on experience that they don't expect your predicament.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #185 on: January 06, 2011, 09:54:13 pm »

Target audience is far smaller than any of my previous projects so that's not helping. Plenty of the projects I've worked on had mountains of idea submissions days after announcement even before I showed that I could even code at all.

On a positive note, I haven't had comments like this in a couple of months: "Hay guy you should make this big robot that shoots out nukes and lasers and dont forgit it has jet packs to."

I think it might help out if I just start asking people, "What do you want in a 4X game?" since I think people don't even know where to start.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 11:07:41 pm by Lap »
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thobal

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #186 on: January 07, 2011, 02:37:55 am »

I was actually starting to work on my own space 4x game, so I didn't really want to give away my ideas. But how about this: Trading companys/commercial transport options. Like if you need to ship a few piddling units of something between planets but dont have any transports around, or just don't want to be bother to do it, you can contract the shipment out to a commercial enterprise. You could also send spies and commandos around this way. You can also set up import and export restrictions. If you have low public support, you might have smugglers running guns to insurgents. That sort of thing. But the cool part is that you could look at shipping records to determine how a saboteur got to one of your backwater planets to blow up your secret lab.
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mainiac

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #187 on: January 07, 2011, 02:40:22 am »

Don't think of it as giving ideas away, think about it as exposing them to the glorious open source idea community.
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thobal

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #188 on: January 07, 2011, 03:42:27 am »

Even better would be sending an agent provocateur through enemy ports to conduct false flag operations on neutral powers.
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #189 on: January 07, 2011, 01:29:28 pm »

I need to play it just a little bit before I can think of ideas. So a playable but unfun demo is exactly what is needed at this point.
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Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #190 on: January 08, 2011, 10:22:40 am »

Playable, but unfun demo coming right up!

By "right up" I mean maybe start of next month or something. Massive certification type exam the 12th and surgery the rest of the month so we'll see how much I get done.

I spend most of my time on the coding backend and making sure things function correctly. This means that the hard stuff is mostly done and the fun content stuff is very lacking.

Demo will have

-Multiplayer
-Save/Load Game
-Army creation/organization
-Working movement(Planetary/Space)
-Combat
-Construction and resource refining
-Very limited content: Galaxy Map, Few planets at most; Units, One or two of each unit type or less than 20% of planned. Same situation with buildings and events.
-Skeleton user interface

Not be present

-Politics/Voting
-Aliens
-AI
-Good art assets (graphics, sound, music)
-Espionage

Maybe present
-Some technologies/research
-Combat Sandbox

Once you guys have the demo though everyone should be able to see how easy it is to just open up the units file in notepad and make new units. Same with maps, terrain tokens, technologies, buildings, and everything else. Maybe that will spur some content creation.
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #191 on: January 08, 2011, 05:26:28 pm »

What kinds of graphics do you need? If you need 3D models for anything, I could possibly help you.
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Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #192 on: January 08, 2011, 05:43:15 pm »

Any 3D modeling would be purely for extra fancy pictures on events or unit menus. Nothing in the game needs to be 3D for any real function. 2D screenshots of 3D models could be used as an art style for certain things, but I'd have to have a pretty solid commitment from people willing to do it. Can't have half the stuff in one style and half in another.

Art is really going to continue to be a problem until I get a lead artist. Lead artist has to like the style he's working in and has to set the standard for any other contributing artists. I don't want to have anyone go out of their way creating art, when the art style isn't even set. I need to lure that sweet artist burningpet back here...Unfortunately, I think he went off making his own game. :-(
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 05:53:29 pm by Lap »
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Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #193 on: January 18, 2011, 03:13:17 pm »

It's really been coming together recently. I finally took the time to add in most of the basic units and all their stats. Space combat just got implemented and seems to work very well.
 
I also spent some time importing a lot of placeholder efs art so testers will actually be able to recognize things.
 
The combat sandbox will definitely be included in the first alpha build. It has already been very helpful in balancing and spotting quirks in combat.
 
There's also been a lot of progress on the name decision. I'm trying to narrow it down from:
 
Shattered Suns
Shattered Imperium
Shadows of Imperium
Echoes of Imperium
 
I'm leaning towards the last two, but all of the names are still viable since they nudge the backstory in slightly different directions.
 
Unless I can find some more images for maps the alpha is going to be stuck with only 3 mismatched planets. Oh well I guess.
 
Good news is that I might be releasing the first build to testers as early as this weekend.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #194 on: January 18, 2011, 03:26:20 pm »

shattered suns is already a game i have it on my shelf, lol.
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