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Author Topic: Echoes of Imperium (4X Strategy Game)[Not Dead]  (Read 36435 times)

Lap

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #165 on: November 29, 2010, 12:17:07 am »

I finally found a resource production tree that seems fairly logical and easy to understand.

So far we have:

Harvested Resources

Tier 1 - The most common resources

Food: Produced by farms. Used for troop creation and maybe upkeep.

Metal: Produced by mines. Used for many, many things.

Energy: Produced from multiple types of power plants. Used for refining of every resource.

Tier 2 - Uncommon resources

Trace - Representing rarer metals. A byproduct of mining in some locations.

Exotica - Represents rare biological material. A byproduct of farming in some locations.

Tier 3 - Rare


Gems - Hard to find on almost any planet. Used for high end products like warp drives and crazy laser stuff.

Tier4 - Ultrarare

Unobtanium - Very rare, extremely limited. Used for producing super units and projects.


Processed goods

All processed goods require some amount of energy in addition to the base material.

It's explained better in picture form:




Wetware - Used for cyborg type stuff

Ceramsteel - Metal on steroids. Many uses.

Fusion batteries? - Similar to ceramsteel in the almost limitless uses

Singularities? - Something that starships require.
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #166 on: December 18, 2010, 10:34:16 am »

Oddly enough my main problem now isn't coding at all. I'm stuck just figuring out the economy aspects. How many resources should the average province produce per turn? How much should the average tank unit cost?

Should buildings benefits function with additive multipliers or not? (100% + 100% = 200% increase vs. 2 * 2  = 4x increase)

Additive multipliers are safer and don't encourage specializing provinces as much.

Anyone up for toying around with econ values?
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #167 on: December 18, 2010, 02:15:10 pm »

Give us all the variables that we need to balance, and we shall see.
Myself, I've got around two weeks to waste.
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Virex

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #168 on: December 18, 2010, 02:26:45 pm »

Do you want people to specialise or not? First get that settled. Also, remember that there are other options beyond multiplicative (which means exponential total growth) and additive (linear total growth if the bonus stays constant, quadratic if the bonuses are first-order in the amount of bonuses applied thus far). For example, the total bonus could also grow sigmoidal, asymptotically or logarithmic.
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #169 on: December 18, 2010, 03:56:04 pm »

Lol Virex, as if I don't have enough to decide.

I can't really decide how much I want them to specialize. Using flat out multiplying multipliers means that any player who doesn't super specialize provinces is going to lose. It kind of removes choice. If you build one science building somewhere you might as well just make the entire province science based or else you're not being efficient.

I currently have it set so that the average province will produce about 5 metal, 5 Food, and 10 energy without any buildings

Mines will have the average province produce +20 metal and +5 Trace
Farms will have the average province produce +20 food and +5 Exotica
Powerplants will have the average province produce +30 energy

To keep things simple for players and myself I'm thinking that each step in the resource refining (as seen a couple posts back) will be:

10 Energy + 10 of whatever else goes into making it.

For example:

10 exotica + 10 energy = 10 chemicals
10 metal + 10 chemicals + 10 energy = 10 csteel

I think something like this should prevent players from having to look stuff up.

We also get a 2:1 farm to chemical factory ratio. With most others being 1:1

I was also considering having each of the basic buildings cost the same (maybe 200 food, 200 metal).
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #170 on: December 18, 2010, 04:03:12 pm »

I feel like we've been over it at least once, but why do you want to make buildings purchaseable with resources and not cash?
Is money going to end up as a pointless resource, as in EFS?
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #171 on: December 18, 2010, 04:34:54 pm »

I feel like we've been over it at least once, but why do you want to make buildings purchaseable with resources and not cash?
Is money going to end up as a pointless resource, as in EFS?

I also have buildings cost 1000 credits minimum or so.

Using food and metal is just a way to limit growth and both are common enough that money by itself could also work in their place.

The only real difference between using money and resources and money by itself is that players can rapidly build in new locations regardless of distance or blockades (money is the only global resource).
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Virex

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #172 on: December 18, 2010, 04:53:43 pm »

Lol Virex, as if I don't have enough to decide.

I can't really decide how much I want them to specialize. Using flat out multiplying multipliers means that any player who doesn't super specialize provinces is going to lose. It kind of removes choice. If you build one science building somewhere you might as well just make the entire province science based or else you're not being efficient. 
In that case make it asymptotic or sigmoidal but also have some exclusion system (building industry hampers agriculture). Players are going to get a lower return on investment the more they build of a specific structure, but building the opposite structure is only going to result in having both running on half power (system blatantly stolen from Gods and Idols, with the caveat that in that gem the price rose exponentially and the gain was constant)
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #173 on: December 19, 2010, 11:12:32 pm »

I was very productive this weekend and I finished way more than I thought I would.

-Implemented province defense (works very similar to Dominions 3).
-Estimation of nearby enemy unit strength based on spotting and stealth (Rather complex; takes into account nearby provinces and any ships in orbit).
-Icons now appear on the worldmap representing province defense strength, army strength, construction.

-Got the construction queue client-server bugs ironed out
-More indicators and messages for the construction queues.
-All basic econ buildings are working, with all harvesting stuff done.
-Disbanding (but not creating) armies.
-Battles from last turn now leave a battleground icon on the world map so players can easily see any action.
-Added a bunch more tooltips and confirmation dialogs.

Besides a tech tree, most of the core features are ready to go. I am excited!
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #174 on: January 01, 2011, 04:01:31 pm »

I had to do some traveling recently and so I spent a lot of the downtime planning out stuff on my Droid. I found a nice program called ThinkingSpace and I got at least some basic tech and unit tree stuff done. I'll need a lot of feedback on these so throw forth the criticisms and additions.

Unit Tree

I basically mapped out every basic type of unit off the type of my head. I realized that a lot of these units could have stealth versions or ones with slight improvements so I tried to only list ones that were significantly different and not just minor improvements to previous units. All of the first tiered units I plan to have available to players with the exception of any highlighted in red. Players should have a lot of choice in what type of units to make from the get go.



Tech Tree

This is even more of an unrefined brainstorm than the unit tree. I decided to set the techs into relevant fields of study like physics, biology, and engineering. The downside to the way I've done is that a player who wants to focus on war might not initially know how to get the latest guns. I'll have to make some sort of adviser or something for new players or perhaps color code certain techs that are more "warlike".

Red techs are highly likely to be banned by The Church or whatever authoritative body takes its place in the story. Arrows indicates it is a necessary prereq to a tech, as do the numbers. A "light bulb" icon and a number indicates this technology also needs the prereq tech with the corresponding number.




Other updates:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What's next:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Picking the backstory and setting is still a bitch. Going back and forth between two variations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The story allows for random maps and a lot of different scenarios without scenario creators even needing to modify the story. It leaves Earth open as a place to be rediscovered, or not; and the fate of the planet is totally undetermined. Maybe in one play through it's devastated by nuclear war, natural disaster, alien invasion, or something similar, in another it's an advanced society who have been unable or unwilling to communicate with the colonies.

I also like using massive wormholes instead of jump gates/star gates or faster than light drives. With star gates players question why they can't just shut down or barricade a star gate. With FTL drives star lanes don't really make much sense either and I'd rather not have unrestricted movement.[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 04:05:08 pm by Lap »
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Servant Corps

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #175 on: January 02, 2011, 12:51:21 am »

I don't know, my experiences with Imperium Nova (an MMO which is based off Dune) suggests that fedualism IN SPACE is pretty popular too. I always saw Guilds as not being corporations though, but being more like unions for certain workers.

Have you considered Corporate Fedualism? It works like regular fedualism (vassal provides tribute for lord, lord promises to defend vassal), just with the names changed:

CEO (King)
|
|
V
District Manager (Lord)
|
|
V
Store Manager (Knight)
|
|
V
Labourer (Peasent)

People who are outside of a Corporation are treated as "outlaws", to be hunted down and exterminated as being a non-contributive part of society (and being prone to crime, of course). Labourers must spend their income at "Company Stores" that overcharge on necessities, thereby ensuring that the labourers keep in their position and do not advance in the hiearchy. For added bonus, state that due to neoptism, a Corporation's hiearchy is hediterary. This system is generally kept in place due to a Church that glorifies wealth and "Prosperity Theology".

EDIT: The "bureacracy" is essentially the weakened "Nightwatchman State" that are the de jure rulers of the planet; their goal is to generally enforce contracts and keep the peace. Once, it had more power, but the Church and Corporations banded together to reduce the power of the State. The Nightwatchman State is still necessary: without it, the planet would slide into anarchy as there would be no outside entity that can enforce anything.

EDIT2: I like how...sensible your Church is when it comes to techonologies. :P
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 01:01:47 am by Servant Corps »
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #176 on: January 02, 2011, 02:07:17 pm »

I don't know, my experiences with Imperium Nova (an MMO which is based off Dune) suggests that fedualism IN SPACE is pretty popular too.

Considering how many MMO's there they are still in a minority. Not to mention that Imperuim Nova is an obscure browser game. Space feudalism is definitely less popular than the run of the mill modern/future space games. Extreme corporatism as in Syndicate, is a bit rarer though, but it's still a very popular theme in cyberpunk games.

[quoteI always saw Guilds as not being corporations though, but being more like unions for certain workers.[/quote]

In real-life maybe, but Dune type guilds like the Space Farers guild or whatever they called are far from basic worker unions. It's just semantics either way.



Quote
Have you considered Corporate Fedualism?

I kind of already consider any form of corporatism similar enough to that. Since this game is based on broader strategy, the subtleties of different types of corporatism will probably be imperceptible to the player. The only actual units they might interact with would be a CEO/noble.

I like the idea of a church working together to glorify wealth. I don't see that too often.


Quote
EDIT2: I like how...sensible your Church is when it comes to techonologies. :P

They'll be downright asinine as I plan on having them randomly ban even seemingly innocuous techs. It won't be every game that they'll ban a normal tech, but once in a while they might. It'd be interesting to see what players do in a game where the Church decides that anyone who researches agriculture is now evil.
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Servant Corps

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #177 on: January 02, 2011, 02:43:50 pm »

Well, I refrain from using the word "corporatism" so as to not have any confusion with the Italian Fascists, who used corporatism in a different manner.

Would you mind providing at least some sort of rationale for the player so that he knows why certain techs like Agriculture gets banned?
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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #178 on: January 02, 2011, 03:01:42 pm »

Here's how The Church is planned to work.

-Each tech has a rating that determines the likelihood of it being banned.(The higher the rating the more likely a tech is to be banned and stay banned for longer
-The most heinous techs will always be banned (helps balance out powerful techs).
-The game periodically checks if it's time to ban a tech and if it is it will run through the techs and roll to see if they are banned/unbanned.

When techs are banned players receive a message, but only a very vague reason as to why. "recent incident and politics...blah blah". The bans aren't entirely predictable so that there's a bit more replayability even in the same universe with the same factions.

 As with a lot of features in the game, tech banning and probably the church itself will be able to be turned out in Galaxy creation.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions+Dune+EFS (An open source multiplayer strategy game)
« Reply #179 on: January 02, 2011, 10:52:34 pm »

I like the tech trees so far. Just a minor nitpick - supersonic ballistics? Like 98% of modern guns? What were they using before that tech, bows and arrows?
Also, what's Moho?

Re: research - how about something like this:
Basically it's a mixture of the second and third options, that is, your empire produces some research points, which translate to a certain percentage of breaktrough probability/turn(? the more I think about it, the less I like it, might be too much randomness for it's own good. On the other hand, some randomness would be welcome, no?), based on the total population+industrial capacity of the empire. The basic, unfunded amount could partially depend on the house traits/technology/civic options maybe?
Players could spend money to fund research, increasing the research efficiency(percentage RP modifier) depending on the amount of money spend over certain period of time, so that it'd require prolonged funding to reach the maximum ceiling of effectiveness for a given funding amount. The efficiency would drop sharply should the fundings get cut.
I really wanted to give you some ready-made equations, but I got defeated due to my prolonged dissociation from anything mathematics-related.

So you're going for the Foundation-like setting? I must say that I kind of liked the idea of starting on Earth better, mostly because this'd allow for a star map with distances and positions reflecting reality, and it's just something that I find appealing(the star systems themselves would be randomly generated all the same).
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