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[Dante]

Constructions don't deconstruct till they hit the bottom? That can't possibly be right, because you could just fill a constructed room with water and dwarves, drop it in magma, and have the outer shell turn to obsidian at the moment of impact.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Although the room's floor would have to be made of natural stone, otherwise it would cave in a second time to drop a single z-level, and the new obsidian roof would presumably cave in then too.

[Dave Mongoose]

Constructions don't deconstruct till they hit the bottom? That can't possibly be right, because you could just fill a constructed room with water and dwarves, drop it in magma, and have the outer shell turn to obsidian at the moment of impact.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Although the room's floor would have to be made of natural stone, otherwise it would cave in a second time to drop a single z-level, and the new obsidian roof would presumably cave in then too.

Also, the dwarves would be incased in obsidian and wouldn't survive...

I'm tempted to try this myself because my latest embark is a huge freshwater lake with a volcano in it.

Could you give me the worldgen info for that (seed et al.)? I was going to dig out my own lake because I couldn't find one, but if you have a world with a lake, it would make things much more simple.

Sure. It's from version 40d - hope that's ok.

Spoiler: world_gen.txt (click to show/hide)

Created in DF v0.28.181.40d.

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:CLIFFY MED]
   [SEED:2656256364]
   [HISTORY_SEED:1611114800]
   [NAME_SEED:2654826154]
   [DIM:129:129]
   [END_YEAR:1050]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:1600:1600]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:5:1:0:0:0:5]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:3:0:0:0:0:1]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:250:500]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:25:250:500]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
   [OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:10]
   [RIVER_MINS:100:100]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_RIVER:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_POOL:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_M_POOL:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_CHASM:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_PIT:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:20]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:20000]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

Counting from the very top right of the region map: the embark spot is 21 squares down, 16 squares to the left.

Embark in the top left of the local area and you get 1 tile of land (with a magma pipe under the surface): all the rest will be lake . No flux, but only the dwarven civ can reach you so armour isn't a big priority.

[Fluff]

If the submarine is not painted yellow, I will be disappointed.

Gypsum is magma-safe in DF2010.

I can't think of a more dwarven use for medical supplies than dropping them into the fiery core of the world.

[Mike Le Watt]

but /tg/ has already done it.

Heh, yeah that was me, I even made that little conceptual image. Here's the thread from nearly a year ago: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6592006/

I've managed to build the two pump stacks to pump water/magma to cast a vessel out of obsidian, however soon after I begun constructing the mold for my test vessel I simply got bored, I think I still have the save somewhere.

Here are some images:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Best of luck to you though, I haven't read the thread but have you thought of a way to keep the dwarf secure while he travels?
Maybe put him in a cage?

[Dante]

Constructions don't deconstruct till they hit the bottom? That can't possibly be right, because you could just fill a constructed room with water and dwarves, drop it in magma, and have the outer shell turn to obsidian at the moment of impact.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Although the room's floor would have to be made of natural stone, otherwise it would cave in a second time to drop a single z-level, and the new obsidian roof would presumably cave in then too.

Also, the dwarves would be incased in obsidian and wouldn't survive...

Nope.
Only the outer shell of the water sphere would be, if the walls surrounding it only deconstructed when they hit the bottom (i.e. were already completely submerged in magma).

Anyway, I tested this for a while in 40d, and it doesn't happen. Constructions fall apart immediately, and making a big cluster of rooms filled with water and dropping it in a magma tube just makes random obsidian everywhere.

[Mr. Accident]

Next step: I've heard it's possible to alter the arena. If we can make it a huge cube of magma, do so. This will let us drop much larger, more complex diving bells into it, and hopefully let us design one where the dwarves stay on the inside.

I just tried something along these lines. Unfortunately, it seems that the arena's size is hard-coded at 144x144x9 -- so no matter what you put in arena.txt, you can't get an arena with more than 9 z-levels. This rather limits the height of things you can drop into the magma. At most, you can get four z-levels of magma below four usable z-levels of open space (since rock created on the top z-level will stick to the arena's ceiling).

To accomplish this, cover the interior of the bottom layer with smooth floors, then fill the next four layers with magma, and the rest with open space. That allows the bottom layer to fill with usable magma on startup. (If you just fill the bottom layer with magma in arena.txt, it'll all drain out immediately.) If you want to try it out and save some time, you can download my arena map here: http://ii.fobby.net/df/arena_magmapit.zip

I guess attempts at larger submarine will have to be carried out in fortress mode. (Unless we can hack DF to support a larger arena?) Anyway, I will continue experimenting with things. . . for SCIENCE. 

[Cardinal]

Of course you can't use built ceilings, you have to use cast ceilings out of obsidian.  I remember from my old mountain-topping days (when you'd cut off the peak for your blasphemous dwarf temple) that when you collapsed rock, it was only the bottom layer that was pulverized.  So don't you really just need to make the bottom more shock absorbent?

XXXXXX
X~@~X
X~~~X
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

I keep asking questions, it's bound time I get myself over to a volcano and find out.

[Retro]

If you drop a long hollow rectangular tube with a natural wall floor but no ceiling into water, what happens to the water? Does it displace elsewhere and respect the hollow, or does physics break and the water appears within the tube?

I'm not sure I saw an answer to this anywhere (talking about a deeeeep pit of water, like 5+z with an equally tall or taller droptube) so I might have to test it myself.

This thread is fantastic, might I add.

[Raviaric]

If the submarine is not painted yellow, I will be disappointed.

Gypsum is magma-safe in DF2010.

We all live in a gypsum submarine!

[Pheo]

Do liquids fall at the same speed? If so... would something like this work?



A 4x4 obsidian tube with a 2x2 hollow center.

The constructed floors would deconstruct upon drop, and everything falls. The magma forms a ceiling *AFTER* it hits the bottom with 2 walls to grab onto (assuming something doesn't go wrong).

The one problem is the displacement of the liquid you drop this into. Will it appear randomly inside the tube and mess it up?

[Dante]

If you drop a long hollow rectangular tube with a natural wall floor but no ceiling into water, what happens to the water? Does it displace elsewhere and respect the hollow, or does physics break and the water appears within the tube?

I'm not sure I saw an answer to this anywhere (talking about a deeeeep pit of water, like 5+z with an equally tall or taller droptube) so I might have to test it myself.

This thread is fantastic, might I add.

Good point... I tried it with 4 z-levels of water and a constructed floor, but since the floor dissolved as soon as it collapsed, the water was free to path down. Remember water does NOT fall like objects, but if it can path to a free space, it will all disappear at once. Using a natural stone floor might just do the trick, since it won't let the water all run away.

That's it, I'm going to create a dedicated 40d testing fortress just for this.

[BEvilR]

Do liquids fall at the same speed? If so... would something like this work?



A 4x4 obsidian tube with a 2x2 hollow center.

The constructed floors would deconstruct upon drop, and everything falls. The magma forms a ceiling *AFTER* it hits the bottom with 2 walls to grab onto (assuming something doesn't go wrong).

The one problem is the displacement of the liquid you drop this into. Will it appear randomly inside the tube and mess it up?

This actually may give us the easiest way to accomplish the "seal at the bottom of the sea" effect. Considering you've already created a magma pour spigot, you just turn it on again after they hit bottom in their U shaped machine.

[Dante]

@BEvilR
The problem is that liquids don't fall like normal objects; instead they path downwards. Hence a huge tank of water can empty out in a single frame if there's a big enough space below. On the 'good news' side, I don't know whether that applies to magma, since it's chunky. So the falling magma cap could well work.

[Fluff]

Do liquids fall at the same speed? If so... would something like this work?



A 4x4 obsidian tube with a 2x2 hollow center.

The constructed floors would deconstruct upon drop, and everything falls. The magma forms a ceiling *AFTER* it hits the bottom with 2 walls to grab onto (assuming something doesn't go wrong).

The one problem is the displacement of the liquid you drop this into. Will it appear randomly inside the tube and mess it up?

This actually may give us the easiest way to accomplish the "seal at the bottom of the sea" effect. Considering you've already created a magma pour spigot, you just turn it on again after they hit bottom in their U shaped machine.

So how do we deal with the drowning dwarves?

If the submarine is not painted yellow, I will be disappointed.

Gypsum is magma-safe in DF2010.

We all live in a gypsum submarine!

It's full of water and we're and we're starting to drown!
Starting to drown!
Starting to drown!

[Pheo]

So how do we deal with the drowning dwarves?

Hmmm...
Seeing as dwarves most likely can't mine underwater, that will be a problem.