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Where are you on the political compass? Economic belief is first, social belief second. Test is here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Left - Authoritarian
Left - Centre
Left - Libertarian
Centre - Authoritarian
Centre - Centre
Centre - Libertarian
Right - Authoritarian
Right - Centre
Right - Libertarian
Other
Don't care to do the test / View poll

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Author Topic: Where Are You On The Political Compass?  (Read 41160 times)

Dwarf

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #210 on: April 28, 2010, 04:12:27 pm »

AFAIK, an assault rifle is defined as an automatic weapon easily held by a man which shoots rifle calibre rounds. An SMG is the same but with pistol calibre.

The assault rifle definition may somewhat overlap with the machine gun definiton sometimes but these are banned anyway.
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Calhoun

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #211 on: April 28, 2010, 04:25:26 pm »

Not all guns used in crime are purchased illegaly. Most are stolen from an owner or from a store. If they are no longer able to sell/own these weapons, they can't be stolen. Illegal purchase of Illegal guns only happens with large oragnized crime groups. Which is very different.
Stealing ... last time I checked... is illegal, which is covered by my statement.  Grandfathered weaponry is not instantly removed from Earth when a law is passed, nor is it instantly more secure from theft.
You asked how the law would stop the now-illegal weapons getting into the hands of those who would commit crimes with them. If they are no longer being sold then no more can be stolen from stores. Most owners are responsible with their weapons, but some aren't. And while some could still be stolen, there would no longer be a constant supply of them to steal.

Also, Thanks. I love being called stupid. I've been nothing but respectful.
You implied that, I said that the people that were shooting up houses with automatic weapons were stupid...

You made no mention of those who were shooting up houses with automatic weapons in that statement, all you mentioned were politicians, and me. (Okay you mentioned those who studied the laws too, but i think it was obvious you weren't talking about them)

No, not really.  You stated yourself that anything that can "spray bullets" should be illegal for civilians to own.  (That implies illegal to fire on their own land for whatever purpose, be it fun or not.)
I said that assault rifles and SMG's should be illegal for civilians to own. You made a general statement based off my specific statment, which would make it sound like think firecrackers should be banned.
And I said you would have to define what constitutes an assault rifle (and SMG by relation.)  But my point was that not all guns are used to kill people and there is a relevant use for them in recreation, even if you disagree.  There are people who can and do practice safe gun handling and you'd like to ban their existence from everyone because of a few stupid people and stray bullets.
I said I wasn't going to define them on the spot here. I never said all guns are used to kill people, I said that they were DESIGNED to kill. (I didn't say "to kill people") I said i wasn't opposed to facilities which would allow civilians to fire them. I even said i wasn't opposed to very strict training and licensing programs. Though the details would have to be worked out.

I wasn't speaking of large-scale fumigation, and you hadn't specified. That said, on a larger scale, there are probably more efficient methods then fumigation or shooting them.
I figured the 150 yard shot, talking of fields... I'm not talking about someone's yard here...  We aren't target shooting in Suburban Chicago!  The old adage of goose and gander isn't valid here.  We have many acres to practice safe shooting and enjoyment and you'd have us give up that right because of some idiot in South Central L.A.?

And no, there's no "safe large scale" method for getting rid of them besides total dangerous chemical genocide.  There's no way we will ever get rid of them all by shooting, chemical, or other means.  They are pests and rodents and very far from protected as far as species are concerned.
You may not be able to get rid of them on a large scale easily, but prevention shouldn't be that hard. Wire fence a few feet underground as well as above ground.
... surrounding the entire field?  Maybe we should go back to that economical/efficient aspect again.
Well if the field isn't being used for anything does it even matter if you have groundhogs?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 04:34:04 pm by Calhoun »
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Andir

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #212 on: April 28, 2010, 09:33:45 pm »

Well if the field isn't being used for anything does it even matter if you have groundhogs?
Because its late, I'm only responding to this because it doesn't appear that you know about rural life.  Fields are not planted year round.
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Haspen

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #213 on: April 29, 2010, 04:40:35 am »

Well if the field isn't being used for anything does it even matter if you have groundhogs?
Because its late, I'm only responding to this because it doesn't appear that you know about rural life.  Fields are not planted year round.
Depends where you live. In more or less tropical places, there's no snow or very low temperatures altogether.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #214 on: April 29, 2010, 04:49:06 am »

what's wrong with having groundhogs roaming unplanted fields?

Shades

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #215 on: April 29, 2010, 04:59:39 am »

what's wrong with having groundhogs roaming unplanted fields?

They make you repeat days over and over
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Aqizzar

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #216 on: April 29, 2010, 05:08:52 am »

what's wrong with having groundhogs roaming unplanted fields?
They make you repeat days over and over
I heard they scare your cows so they don't make milk.

I think the much better question is why are you people arguing about this?
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Dwarf

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #217 on: April 29, 2010, 05:09:53 am »

It's basing on a gun argument in which someguy said guns are necessary for shooting groundhogs.
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Shades

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #218 on: April 29, 2010, 05:21:38 am »

I think the much better question is why are you people arguing about this?

Welcome to the internet. This kind of thing happens.

Besides it's an important discussion, are ground hogs a problem for farmers?
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Its like playing god with sentient legos. - They Got Leader
[Dwarf Fortress] plays like a dizzyingly complex hybrid of Dungeon Keeper and The Sims, if all your little people were manic-depressive alcoholics. - tv tropes
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Aqizzar

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #219 on: April 29, 2010, 05:24:01 am »

No no no, I'm totally cool with talking about groundhogs.  What I can't figure out is why groundhogs have anything to do with gun laws, and why anybody gives even shits about that to keep on arguing about groundhogs, as if they have any bearing whatsoever to the subject.

As for the more recent question, I imagine the problem with letting groundhogs live in unused fields is like feeding stray cats.  If you even want to use that field or any around it again, those groundhogs you ignored will be a lot harder to get rid of later.
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And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
Please amplify your relaxed states.
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The ancients built these quote pyramids to forever store vast quantities of rage.

Shades

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #220 on: April 29, 2010, 05:25:58 am »

As for the more recent question, I imagine the problem with letting groundhogs live in unused fields is like feeding stray cats.  If you even want to use that field or any around it again, those groundhogs you ignored will be a lot harder to get rid of later.

So, again like stray cats, would you suggest converting them to mittens and/or feeding them to ATMs are the correct solutions?
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Aqizzar

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #221 on: April 29, 2010, 05:30:35 am »

It's not a perfect analogy.  Turning stray cats into mittens is a sustainable industry in itself.  If you can sustain a groundhog mitten industry, so much the better.  But we're going into this assuming that you want the fields for the fields themselves, and we all know you just can't butcher strays fast enough to be rid of them.  Another solution is needed - I for one don't think plinking them with a .22 is going to work either.
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And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #222 on: April 29, 2010, 06:31:53 am »

at least you butchers wont fall in love for your groundhogs as they carry them to the butchery... i think the problem is not butchering them faster than they reproduce, it's tanning their skins faster than they rot

also, prepared groundhog eye roast, yummy

Andir

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #223 on: April 29, 2010, 06:59:45 am »

It's not a perfect analogy.  Turning stray cats into mittens is a sustainable industry in itself.  If you can sustain a groundhog mitten industry, so much the better.  But we're going into this assuming that you want the fields for the fields themselves, and we all know you just can't butcher strays fast enough to be rid of them.  Another solution is needed - I for one don't think plinking them with a .22 is going to work either.
A .22 definitely won't work.  They have thick fur and fat that you need to be able to break through from a distance.  Our preferred method is 7.62 mm FMJ rounds shot from an M14 at 200 yards... and yes, it does keep the fields fairly clean because they usually nest in an area and stay there for life.  Shooting the ones in the fields does keep the ones who claimed that plot from coming back.  The do however populate the woods nearby, so it's a never ending task of hunting/waiting them out.  It requires laying silent for long periods of time because their hearing is quite good.

And they ARE bad for farmers and fields.  They eats the roots and plants and are better served as fertilizer.  They will also attack anyone near their nests, so a farmer out inspecting fence lines or crop growth could be attacked and bitten.

I was only arguing this, not because I was justifying guns [though they are cheaper than rodent bombing the entire field...] but because guns can be useful for things other than killing people as well as being for sport/fun.  Hunters do not always hunt for food.  They also hunt to control the populations of wild animals and for the challenges that it poses.  The overall goal is not total genocide.  Hunters and farmers are likely more conscious of nature and wildlife than the people in this thread who think guns are only good for gangs of criminals.

That's usually not contested by the population though, because it serves a purpose.  Only the absolute fringe extreme pacifists have a problem with it.

My main argument is that automatic weapons are not deadly in the right hands and you are "punishing" all of society for the mistakes of a few people who would rather do harm with them than use them for entertainment purposes.  There was a Mythbusters episode where they had a minigun and were trying to cut a tree in half with it.  It didn't work, but they themselves claimed it was fun as hell to shoot.  There is entertainment to be had in a controlled situation.  Sanctioning this control off to the government seems to be your only accepted solution, but my argument is that anyone willing to pay the cost of the gun and shells (quite expensive in quantities that are needed for such a weapon) should be able to own and fire it on their own property for their own entertainment purposes (as long as those purposes don't infringe on the rights of another person to live.)

The law of the land is quite clear in that regard.  People have rights and anyone infringing on those rights is breaking the law and should be stopped.  I have no problem with that, but you seem to.  You would rather say that people should not have a specific right, no matter what.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 07:01:57 am by Andir »
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Pathos

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Re: Where Are You On The Political Compass?
« Reply #224 on: April 29, 2010, 07:29:14 am »

Where Are You On The Political Compass?  « 1 2 3 ... 15 »  Pathos  223  1337   Today at 06:59:45 am
by Andir 

Cool.
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