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[TheDarkJay]

To be fair, I think politics as a whole has killed the most people. Go back through history and you find every political ideology has claimed lives and committed horrendous atrocities in name of said ideology.

So, long story short: If you want an ideology that harms no man, become a hermit.

See, this is where I hate my cynicism. On the one hand, I'm aware that all parties/ideologies have weaknesses, and you're always only ever picking what you think is the lesser evil...on the other hand, why should I settle for the lesser evil just because it's all there is? -,,,- At least by not voting I'm not responsible for the things it does, inevitably, fuck up ^,,,^ Which is also a shitty logic >,,,<

[Pathos]

Politics is merely a continuation of war by other means. People would fight over resources etc ( that includes people ), no matter what, politics is merely the non-violent ( usually ) way of resolving it.

It is interesting how from war ( fighting between chimp tribes over resources ) we got politics, which is a continuation of war by other means, and from politics we got a strange new sort of war, ( exactly the same kind of war, but oddly different ) which is a continuation of politics by other means.

Rather strange.

[TheDarkJay]

Another issue I have is the so-called "debates" being broadcast. These aren't debates. Debates would raise issues, debates would discuss such issues, debates would present evidence and logical arguments for their points of view on said issues, debates would actually bloody well talk about things instead of parroting campaign slogans and party press conference lines again and again and again!

These aren't debates, they are just three simultaneous rallies.

[de5me7]

agreed, the debates basically consist of three guys not really listening to each other or the questions and instead waiting their turn to real out their manifestos, and their "message". One thing all three parties have in common is that their "message" doesnt really relate to their policies:

New kind of politics - whats new other than your face. Our paties been around almost 100 years and had the same policies for the past 20.

job, jobs jobs - but im going to tax jobs from next year, and i havent launched any job creation schemes in this recession

Big society - we will give married people a tax break .... of 3 pounds a month!, and we will disown any public services we cant get to work in the name of responsibility

[Servant Corps]

and we will disown any public services we cant get to work

 

Isn't that what government supposed to do? Implement public services that work, and if the public services don't work, disband them so that you can throw that money at public services that do work?

[Pathos]

What the hell does, "We'll cut the deficit, not the NHS" mean, anyway? At least 30% of the NHS IS deficit, for god's sake.

[de5me7]

and we will disown any public services we cant get to work

 

Isn't that what government supposed to do? Implement public services that work, and if the public services don't work, disband them so that you can throw that money at public services that do work?

the tory plan is to allow the public to assume control of public services they are not happy with. Big society, according to them means people taking responsibility. What i expect it will mean in effect is the government will cut funding, all people to take over management of public services so it can cut funding further, and then shed a respnsilbity for the s**t state of affairs.

The other critical issue is that public services will have to meet the publics expectations - for transport this is quite simple - turn up on time, but for schools, or hospitals its more complext. People often have unrealistic expectations of what a school or hosptoial ought to do for them. If ten thousand people want a school to reduce sex or religious education, should they be allow to interveen and change that?

If the local populous do take control of a public service, who in the community makes the final decisions?

Theres alot of unanswered questions in all three parties manifestos once you scratch the surface, but rather than drawning this out in the debates instead they are just repeating the headlines to each oteher

[Shades]

Isn't that what government supposed to do? Implement public services that work, and if the public services don't work, disband them so that you can throw that money at public services that do work?

What do you count as not working anyway?

Most public services are a drain on the economy, but then they where never expected to be profitable. The service provided has to be judged against the costs it takes and that is always a hard call.

Personally I think our public services are pretty good, they aren't wonderful by any stretch but they cater fairly well for the 60 something million people we have. I'd love to see someone manage that cost effectively

[Pathos]

I find it funny that one of the Tory's posters is, "Gordon Brown gave us the highest unemploment figures in UK history" whilst they themselves gave us the highest unemploment rates in UK history ( which is MUCH more important than figures ).

Hilarious hypocrites.

[Leafsnail]

Actually, Pathos... the unemployment thing is pretty funny.  Heh.

"Cut the deficit, not the NHS" is a pretty retarded slogan and everyone knows it.

The thing is... if my understanding of economics is up to anything, wouldn't cutting the deficit merely reduce the speed at which we are going into debt, rather than actually paying it off?

[Shades]

The thing is... if my understanding of economics is up to anything, wouldn't cutting the deficit merely reduce the speed at which we are going into debt, rather than actually paying it off?

Your logic is correct

The interest on our debt is currently, assuming my reading of the budget is correct, at a similar level we spend on the NHS (which I believe is the highest percentage of our GDP spent on any one area), if we could pay it off then we, as a country, would be significantly better off. Doing that will be hard though and we'd need more taxes which means we either need a higher tax rate, profitable public services or a larger workforce, higher tax rates are never popular, our profitable public services have all been sold at this point and a large workforce requires immigration which some people don't seem to like right now.

[de5me7]

I find it funny that one of the Tory's posters is, "Gordon Brown gave us the highest unemploment figures in UK history" whilst they themselves gave us the highest unemploment rates in UK history ( which is MUCH more important than figures ).

Hilarious hypocrites.

without having read your links i believe unemployment under thatcher was 3 mill, in better ecoonomic conditions. Currently its about 2.5mill but that may rise once the knife hits the public sector. UHMMM i love recession.

i can see two benefits of the tories wining the next election

1. because they hold know scotish seats and generally dont like the scottish (if they dont have to ally with snp for a majority, shudders) they will take Alex Salmon down a notch.

2. Ed balls may loose his seat 

3. when im at the picket lines  chucking bottles at the police i will feel much more justified with a tory government in power.

oh wait thats three.

[TheDarkJay]

Apparently Gordon made a "gaff" by calling a woman a bigot behind her back when he thought he wasn't being recorded.

Seriously, what's the fucking deal? If you ever meet a politician who isn't at *least* two-faced, you instantly know they aren't a good politician. Politics is like society in general: Based entirely around lying to each others faces.

[Shades]

Apparently Gordon made a "gaff" by calling a woman a bigot behind her back when he thought he wasn't being recorded.

Seriously, what's the fucking deal? If you ever meet a politician who isn't at *least* two-faced, you instantly know they aren't a good politician. Politics is like society in general: Based entirely around lying to each others faces.

Also he was right about her, but eh *shrugs*

Not that he'll get my vote for that mind you.

[TheDarkJay]

None of them get my vote. I want logical, concise statements, clearly research with cited sources. I want pleas to reason, not emotion. I want them to actually not only state what they would like to achieve but how they are going to go about it.

When people can show me these, when I can make an informed and rational decision, then I'll vote.