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[Deon]

Hey Jeoshua—I'm going to treat you as my resident Notepad++ guru so do you know if there's any way to auto-indent every line in a file that doesn't begin with [CREATURE:x], or am I still stuck with doing that manually if it finally grows irritating enough?

1) Ctrl+A (select all).
2) Shift+TAB a few times (removes all unneeded tabulations which were there).
3) TAB (moves everything right by a single tabulation).
4) Ctrl+H "   [CREATURE" -> "[CREATURE" (removes a tabulation before the [CREATURE:*] token).

Voila!

Also, perhaps a weird question, but one that's been bothering me: in vanilla DF, if you offered any wooden object to elves and offended them, they'd start hating on you and, in so doing, bring you animals in cages instead of cloth. As you all know I am an avid fan of tamed critters, so this was always infinitely preferable and I made it tradition to offend the elves like this in my every fort ever.

I'm wondering, are any of the elfin castes like the vanilla elves in that sense, either hating wood or just bringing you critters when they hate you beyond a certain point? In my current fort, I have an ezrakim caravan sitting in my depot, and I'm considering stealing all their stuff to piss 'em off. (But then, I don't want to piss them off into warring with me, obviously—they still need to be amiable enough with me to still trade, so I might abstain... or just make a save to roll back to )

I didn't notice that they bring more pets when they hate you... Did you just make it up? Anyway, Sylvan elves dislike wooden products.

[asfghn]

I didn't notice that they bring more pets when they hate you... Did you just make it up? Anyway, Sylvan elves dislike wooden products.

Hahaha! No, Deon, you ought to know me better than that. ;P I can't remember where I read it—somewhere on the wiki, so I'll go wiki-diving and see if I can't dig it up again.

FOR MY HONOR T^T

[edit] Okay, I could have sworn it was on the wiki, but I googled it first and found this:

Elves that are getting more annoyed tend to bring the real cool stuff, Giant Eagles, Bears, Cougars, and other Giant or otherwise cool animals.

[...]

You may not be aware, but it's normal for many members of the forum (including me) to just take everything the elves bring until they get mad enough to bring the cool stuff.

Another post from the same thread that goes into a bit more detail, quoted for your convenience:

I had read a hint that elves bring more cool animals when annoyed, but you seem to be saying it's really a fact.

Here's basically what happens:
1. Cloth is low weight, and relatively high value
2. Animals are high weight, relatively low value
3. You rip off the elves repeatedly
4. They think, "Fuck those dwarves, man. From now on, we're not bringing the awesome, lightweight shit anymore. Roll out the heavy garbage!"
5. The thing is, in this case the heavy garbage is animals, which have a much higher practical value than their in-game number represents.
6. The elven caravan starts bringing lots of caged animals.
7. ?
8. Profit!

In the interest of devil's advocacy, another post that addresses the cloth thing, but not directly the animal thing:

I had read a hint that elves bring more cool animals when annoyed, but you seem to be saying it's really a fact.

Here's basically what happens:
1. Cloth is low weight, and relatively high value
2. Animals are high weight, relatively low value
3. You rip off the elves repeatedly
4. They think, "Fuck those dwarves, man. From now on, we're not bringing the awesome, lightweight shit anymore. Roll out the heavy garbage!"
5. The thing is, in this case the heavy garbage is animals, which have a much higher practical value than their in-game number represents.
6. The elven caravan starts bringing lots of caged animals.
7. ?
8. Profit!

I've corrected this numerous times in other posts, but it looks like I'll have to correct it yet again here:
* Elves do not think cloth is more valuable than other goods.
* All merchants (of any race) think that goods stored in bins must be loaded onto the caravan first.

The effect of this is that when the Elves decide to bring one hundred of every single trade good (which would normally require dozens of wagons), they end up running out of room on their mules before they finish loading up their cloth. This was easy to prove back in 40d - if you boosted the trade capacity of their pack animals to some really high amount, then they'd end up bringing just as many animals, barrels of booze, and stacks of plants (and all of their other crap like weapons, armor, crafts, and barrels of Gnomeblight) as bins of cloth.

You seem to forget that many pets in Genesis are much more expensive than in vanilla.

Oh, that's true! I've gotten into such a habit of pissing off elves I hadn't considered this, and I play Genesis so exclusively I... had actually forgotten that pretty much everything was more expensive. (I haven't had my embark profiles broken in so long it slipped my mind.)

OTOH, I've never tried to trade artifacts, but if it's possible, a low-grade simplistic one (~6k dwarfbux) ought to be worth cool giant critters.

[Deon]

You seem to forget that many pets in Genesis are much more expensive than in vanilla.

[Haspen]

You seem to forget that many pets in Genesis are much more expensive than in vanilla.

But still not stored en masse in bins, like cloth

[TomiTapio]

Hey asf/Kat, here's tips for a happier town:
make 60 statues. Build best of them on busy path and meeting area. Build crap ones outdoors to warn your enemies about butterflies.
Steel or gold depot. They'll admire it when bringing items.
Bury dead war animals, by enabling pets in coffins's tasks.

Unhappier town: assign caged werewolves to your main pasture. (well, good if your soldiers are waiting for the Uncaging Ceremony.)

[Deon]

Hey asf/Kat, here's tips for a happier town:
make 60 statues. Build best of them on busy path and meeting area. Build crap ones outdoors to warn your enemies about butterflies.
Steel or gold depot. They'll admire it when bringing items.
Bury dead war animals, by enabling pets in coffins's tasks.

Unhappier town: assign caged werewolves to your main pasture. (well, good if your soldiers are waiting for the Uncaging Ceremony.)

Hehehe.


By the way, I've considered the economy side of the game... And yeah, the currency right now makes no sense. The copper is much cheaper than the gold, yet it's only 1/15 of the gold cost in coins. In real life coins usually go in 10 or 100 times increment between coin types, so I guess it should be 1 (copper)/100 (silver)/10000 (gold). What do you think?

[TomiTapio]

I rather don't care about currency since I don't adventure. But the pet and steel item values should be the basis of all other values I think. Pet rat, 10 €. pet tiger, 550 €. Pet mammoth, 1500 €. So I think one gold coin maybe... 1/40th of a mammoth, so 40 goldcoin=1500.
Hmm... 1 copper = 1 crap meal,
100 copper = 10 € pet rat,
1 gold = 4000 coppers = 40 rats = 400 € = 1 tame lion.

Food values are just wonky and I have nerfed cooking skill leveling -- dorfs are not known for their cuisine. Dorfs should export stone and metal items.

ps. I was D&D basic set (not AD&D) dungeon master in 1987-1990. First ever English-language product I read was a Dragon Magazine 1988-somemonth.

pps. reported bug "snow does not stop fires", http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4555

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[asfghn]

Hey asf/Kat, here's tips for a happier town:
make 60 statues. Build best of them on busy path and meeting area. Build crap ones outdoors to warn your enemies about butterflies.
Steel or gold depot. They'll admire it when bringing items.
Bury dead war animals, by enabling pets in coffins's tasks.

Unhappier town: assign caged werewolves to your main pasture. (well, good if your soldiers are waiting for the Uncaging Ceremony.)

I think I am just going to make a txt file filled with your advice *hugs*

I am going to try my first ever all-indoors fort tonight or tomorrow (generating the world tonight, might not get to play until tomorrow... I do need sleep at some point, it's quarter 'til one in the morning here), so I appreciate the tip about the statues—usually all I do to cheer up my dwarves is engrave everything. I... I actually didn't know statues existed until your screenshot from a while back 

And feel free to call me Kat I know it's less of a mouthful than 'asfghn'!

By the way, I've considered the economy side of the game... And yeah, the currency right now makes no sense. The copper is much cheaper than the gold, yet it's only 1/15 of the gold cost in coins. In real life coins usually go in 10 or 100 times increment between coin types, so I guess it should be 1 (copper)/100 (silver)/10000 (gold). What do you think?

Hum, it might only be my RPG background but the jump from 100 (silver) to 10k (gold) seems a bit steep. (Understanding that I've never actually stuck with a fort long enough to have an economy established.) Typical D&D (or at least 3.5e, the version I "grew up" on) ratios go 1 (copper)/10 (silver)/100 (gold)/1,000 (platinum). I am way too sleepy to offer a well-reasoned suggestion on how to better balance the economy, but I thought another perspective on 'fantasy' economies might help a bit.

And now I'm going to go stagger off to bed! G'night, guys! ♥

[Dutchling]

Weren't coins just worth just as much as what they are made of?

[rainekage]

Weren't coins just worth just as much as what they are made of?

You know, I just don't know.  In my experience, the actual value doesn't seem to correlate heavily to the material they're made of.  I've had a copper coin be more expensive than an iron, one time. 

However, one of my least favorite things about adventure mode is unloading loot for coins.  If I have a good adventurer (rare, they usually get eated), then eventually my inventory ends up being like 8 pages of coins.

And I'm with Kat on being really used to the D&D currency system.  My brain is pretty hardwired for that one.  Stupid economics.

On totally unrelated mod news, I got a new job!  Yay.  Okay, back to the iceworld.

Oh, Kat.  How is it you embark with dragon raptors, anyway?  Do you set your embark points really high?  I ask because it's like 1,000 points per raptor.  I embarked with 2k more points than normal for my glacier attempt, and I ended up with like five mastiffs, two bulldogs, two spaniels, and those together are less than a single raptor.

[TomiTapio]

produces one stack of 500 coins. Each stack of coins has an effective item value of 10, meaning that the value of a stack is 10 x material value of the component metal, and a given coin is (10 x material value / 500) of the value of the metal bar that produced it.

from http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Currency

But there's settings in each civ to say what metals and what values are assigned. Some civ might have lead as the priciest. (500 lead coins = 10¤ if by material only)
Genesis dorfs at the moment have [CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]

[Jeoshua]

I gave my human races 1/10/100 standard DnD coinage, but underground races use a more complex 1/5/10/20/50/100/200/500/1000 series that ranges from iron to adamant.

Good times...

Coins can be traded for material worth in cultures other than the one they were minted in... but that race has a coin of that material already, it changes the value.  So human gold coins weren't worth hardly anything to dwarves.

Too bad dwarves don't have shops or else it'd have been awesome.

[KarolineDianne]

So... When can I expect the ASCII version? I'd really like to get caught up, I haven't played since Genesis 3.19!

[SirAaronIII]

Deon is working on it. Or so he claims.

[Jeoshua]

Something I'd like to point out for Deon's benefit:

When using graphics tiles, one does not need to set all the creatures to have specific tiles.  They can be left as their normal, ASCII values.  The raw/graphics files will change them into creature pictures just fine.  The only thing that really NEEDS to be changed in the raw files is the plant and inorganic tiles, as trees, plants, and minerals tend to vary between graphical sets...