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Poll

Would you deny others the freedom to enjoy planning waste disposal?

Of course not. Freedom is great.
- 82 (31.4%)
Heavens no! I would never deny others.
- 10 (3.8%)
People should be free to enjoy what they like. I'd never oppose it.
- 29 (11.1%)
I love denying others basic rights so I can be lazy and not edit my .init file.
- 55 (21.1%)
What kind of rigged poll is this? MSNBC has fairer. Also, I am pro-filth.
- 85 (32.6%)

Total Members Voted: 260


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 27

Author Topic: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already  (Read 57889 times)

Urist McDepravity

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2010, 05:16:01 am »

I didn't feel like carving out an intricate system of tunnels to carry away their
Thats blasphemy! Carving intricate system of tunnels and topping it with complex engineering to just wash away the waste is completely dwarfish and 'must have'.
I already tried to plan proper water solution for my living quarters in some prev. fortresses, but never had actual reason to finish it.
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Garrie

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2010, 06:23:07 am »

How do you think dwarfs get Plump Helmets to grow underground?

Look at the results of googling "humanure"
http://www.google.com.au/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNTM_enAU356&q=humanure&meta=lr%3D&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Poop is a highly valuable resource in mediaevil techs, as is urine.
Except in times of siege it would not just be dumped down the side of the walls, unless some poor sap was going to be picking it up from down there later.
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Is there any way to remove mud outdoors?
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ckbryant

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2010, 06:25:57 am »

I mean, SOMEONE would build a drowning trap that runs on sewage. And that's just wrong.

Iain M. Banks' superb sf novel "Consider Phlebas," the first book set in the Culture universe, opens with a drowning trap that runs on sewage.  It's absolutely spectacular.  If you read it, you might reconsider.
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Scruga

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2010, 07:19:32 am »

Poop can't we added as we wouldn't know if there was blood mixed with vomit in a tile or poo :o
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New question! If I were to remove elves [INTELLIGENT] tag in the raws, would it work?
Dwarf Fortress: Where taking a creatures intelligence is an accepted way of modding.

immibis

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2010, 06:09:26 pm »

So?
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Owlbread

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2010, 06:12:55 pm »

Poop can't we added as we wouldn't know if there was blood mixed with vomit in a tile or poo :o

The answer here surely is to simply use a different shade of brown.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2010, 06:27:02 pm »

Poop can't we added as we wouldn't know if there was blood mixed with vomit in a tile or poo :o

The answer here surely is to simply use a different shade of brown.
Or runny pools of green if the dwarf ate a bad plump helmet.
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Nikov

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2010, 08:52:48 pm »

Just so its clear, I'd like 'filth' as an evaporating flow that leaves behind trackable, disgusting grime on the tile. Outside, filth is washed away by rain and dwarves will try to 'use a shrub' if no options are possible. Once you start digging deep, problems arise.

Dwarves who do their smelly business randomly through the fort because you have no sanitation system get unhappy thoughts. Grime gets on their clothes and into wounds, causing infections. Dwarves have to clean themselves as well as the floors of grime, which causes more unhappy thoughts. The solution is to build a latrine, a 1x1 tile room consisting of a chair, block and bucket, using the 'o' tile. It is built over open space just like a well. You designate it into a room, assigning an owner if you wish or leaving it public. Using a latrine room when more than one dwarf is present in the room causes an unhappy thought; don't forget the door!

 When used, the 1/7 bit of filth falls down into whatever hole exists to either splatter at the base of a tower, off a cliff, into a stream, into a cistern, or into a flowing sewer tunnel. In any case, doing so causes a happy thought (a golden throne and platinum bucket causing even happier ones). The dwarf is filth and grime free and returns to his daily routine of vomiting and getting covered in antman ichor. If filth doesn't begin to pile up, it evaporates into grime which can be ignored. If it does pile up, however, it spreads to other tiles using magma physics; unpressured and slow. A busy fort might find itself filling smaller cisterns. A 4/7 tile of filth generates miasma, which can rise through the latrine or any other openings.

Dealing with the filth production of a large fort requires water or magma. Magma obviously burns filth into smoke and causes potentially hillarious results, since a stream of flammable liquid trails from the magma all the way to your dwarf's behind sitting on a latrine. Clever players can come up with a solution or ten to this possible source of fun; floodgates, for example. However water behaves with filth differently. When water comes in contact with filth, any amount of filth, it is turned into filthy water and the two liquids combine. Filthy water leaves behind grime rather than mud, making it unsuitable for farming and bathing, and contaminates wells and pools. Dwarves must cautiously direct the water off site, into rivers or caverns, and possibly have evaporated away in the boundless magma sea. However, filthy water does not generate miasma or burn. It does, however, create an inviting habitat for a variety of mutated crap. I mean carp. Also tentacled beasties and kobolds, naturally.

Some people are worried that huge sewer systems will be required for forts; they are not. They are only required for huge forts. Your founders will be quite content to use shrubs and the like during the early months and once a latrine can be set up in a corner with a decent cistern below, you really have nothing to worry about for several waves of migrants. Once enough migrants amass that your latrines begin to fill and generate miasma, either dump the latrines into rivers, flush them with pumped or bucketed water, or seal up the latrine and dig newer, bigger ones. Only when your sprawling megafortress begins generating a new tile of 7/7 filth every week do you need the sort of sewer system that so many players long to explore in adventurer mode or defend against ratmen invaders. Because there is a lot of build-up time before the major demand arrives, most people should be able to agree this is a way to add fun and challenge to the end game. Kings demanding private golden latrines and sewer monsters crawling out of the deep? Sieges forcing us to close off our sewer system and disease running rampant through the fort? Yes please.

And of course, filth could be disabled in the init raw, and by being handled as 'filth' rather than specifically urine and feces, we put a fig leaf on the matter for the squeamish.
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.

darkrider2

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2010, 09:29:39 pm »

Build an overhang above your entrance. Build grates on the floor. Designate "Latrine".
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Danjen

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2010, 10:00:58 pm »

With the new materials system, the game can definitely support this now. I still find the specifics of it kind of squicky. However, I do like the idea of a large, branching sewer system with floodgates and levers and lots of mechanics. Maybe there would be some kind of "pipe" system, that functions like mechanisms do, and they'd be made of wood or metal?
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quinnr

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2010, 10:03:39 pm »

Will we be able to coat arrows in filth to give enemies E. Coli?

I'd be all for it then.
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caknuck

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2010, 11:16:07 pm »

Oh look, add a meaningless addon to make healthcare more valuable.

Actually, the ONE benefit to adding waste management would be to just hear "Urist McSickdwarf has died of dysentery."

You're forgetting the positive thought "He has evacuated his bowels in a legendary bathroom recently."

And don't you want *goblin bone crappers* that menace with spikes of lay pewter? Who wouldn't?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2010, 12:51:57 am »

Will we be able to coat arrows in filth to give enemies E. Coli?

I'd be all for it then.
If we're using realistic E. Coli I doubt that would work very well. E. Coli causes health problems when a rare strain starts to interject on a common strain's territory, resulting in the immune system overeacting, as is it's trademark. E. Coli itself is non-pathogenic. Being shot with a filth covered arrow would cause other problems should it enter the bloodstream, though.
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shadowclasper

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2010, 01:06:40 am »

Unless it started off as default off, I'm against "Filth" in general terms. As somebody who's studying to design games for a living, this is one of those things that one has to understand. You can't juggle TOO MANY THINGS at once, or the level of challenge will surpass the learning ability of the player, creating frustration as things go to hell. We already have that problem due to the horrible interface, adding something like this before the interface is COMPLETELY overhauled is asking for trouble.

If it HAS to be added. Just call it Filth, nothing more.

And if it HAS to be added. I want them to make stuff like Blood, Milk, and various other liquids into stuff that works like water and magma. Get that done first please. Otherwise go with Nikov's stuff.

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DFPongo

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2010, 01:30:33 am »

Glad everyone is so interested in this.
I hope I never have to be.
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