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[Wirevix]

I wouldn't really mind having to actually have water for crops as long as it's done intentionally (i.e., it doesn't have buggy aspects like requiring you to have an open z-level above a patch before you can tell a dwarf to throw a bucket of water on it, and it's not just underground crops while surface crops remain magically water-free.)

But if it stays on a system that you have to either do the above fake-pond-trick, or you have to deliberately flood sections of the fortress and hope you don't make any of the myriad mistakes that some folks (me) always make when it comes to water + fortress, it seems too unintentional to mesh well with me.  Make it a feature and it'll be a feature, but right now it's still "bug."

[Interus]

I can say it should go back to the way it was, if only for the fact we *do* still want new players coming

Yes... because the farming is the main barrier for new players... -_-

The very first time I played, I quit because I couldn't figure out why I couldn't plant anything on my farm.  Of course, I'd planted it on the surface, so the problem was no seeds, and I wasn't even sure I'd actually made a farm.  Still, it stopped me from playing until somebody else convinced me to try it out again.


For people who want constant irrigation, how would that work?  You can't exactly keep an area at 1/7 without constant maintenance.  And water in the tile next to it doesn't seem to make mud.  If it did, that'd be great and I'd just try to do that without causing a flood.

[InsanityPrelude]

Make your farm next to a murky pool. Set up a floodgate, a lever connected to the floodgate, and a door to keep the water out of the rest of the fortress. Open up the pool. Pull the lever. I figured that out quickly enough and I'd never had farms I had to irrigate before (40d being my introduction to DF.)

I can think of things that'd be a lot more daunting to new players than that.

[Slackratchet]

I will be really disappointed if this becomes a 'feature'. It doesn't feel consistent since some crops are plantable without water and others are not. I can't see why the dirt underground would be significantly more or less moist than the dirt above ground.

[Darkerson]

What would be nice is if you could farm like in the old version, without irrigation, but say you do use irrigation, you get a larger harvest then say if you dont. If that makes any sense 

[PsyberianHusky]

What would be nice is if you could farm like in the old version, without irrigation, but say you do use irrigation, you get a larger harvest then say if you dont. If that makes any sense 

plumper plump helmets, yes.

[Wirevix]

I agree - an effort vs. reward system would be nicest.  Maybe some more exotic/valuable/bigger crops that won't grow if you don't use irrigation, and other crops grow faster, but you can get some basic sustenance if you just use cave dirt.

[PsyberianHusky]

I agree - an effort vs. reward system would be nicest.  Maybe some more exotic/valuable/bigger crops that won't grow if you don't use irrigation, and other crops grow faster, but you can get some basic sustenance if you just use cave dirt.

Rewards for letting fields lie fallow could be nice too its done in real agriculture/horticulture   

[Areyar]

edit:

As I have nothing else to say, a random observation:
Grimelings are not as harmless as Gremlings....to a fledgling fort.

a solitary g was wandering near my embark site and I paid it little heed as I began planning my entrance and figuring out the new military uniforms/organization/orders etc.
Suddenly it interrupted my axedwarf, who was getting equipment...even though there was none to be had yet. (AFAIK) Well good I thought, I recruited this lad to the one man wagonguard. unfortunately, I haven't yet completely mastered the m-controls, so the g went unmolested.
Until it found my dogs...or vice versa. Now both dogs are beaten up and unconcious. I did eventualy manage to find the k:attack creature button though.

[Misterstone]

There have been tons of suggestions for making agriculture more realistic/challenging.  If you really want to see this, vote it up in the vote for features thread!

[Urist McDepravity]

When i first started playing DF, irrigation was a nessesity (or i failed to have soil, dont remember), and it was easy to figure way back then. You just install floodgate, lever, link, pull, dig into river, wait till farm is 3/4 covered, pull. Since you can plant in 1/7 level, you can start farming nearly immediately (as soon as all 2/7 fill rest of the area). It seemed natural and perfectly normal.

[tigrex]

I'd just like to point out that a total newbie would take time to figure out 3-dimensional digging, and would need to have an operational masonry, mechanic's shop and knowledge of linking and levers to pull off the above mentioned strategy.

Doable, especially if you've researched and you know it would work, but probably not the first thing the newbie would think of.

Heck, sometimes DF logic isn't realworld logic.  My conclusion was to drain a nearby pond and install a farm at its base.  Didn't work.  I have no idea why.

I always thought that DF farming was quite simple and easy so that people who didn't want to have to muck around extensively with it could still get food, while people who wanted their fort plans to look like a sillouhette of a dwarf giving carp the finger would have to get innovative with irrigation.

[Aklyon]

What would be nice is if you could farm like in the old version, without irrigation, but say you do use irrigation, you get a larger harvest then say if you dont. If that makes any sense 

It makes sense and I think it would be a nice compromise.

[Areyar]

Like fertilizer. yep, that would be fair.

===

The steep learning curve for newbies is expected and only fun to experience/read about.
fort 1: embark team gets eaten by cavecritter. : remember to build doors.
fort 2: fort collapses as dwarves die of hunger : learn how to hunt for food / fish
fort 3: lack of alcohol drives them over the edge. : learn farming and brewing
fort 4: spidermonkeys invade and steal the food: learn about miasmas and butchering.
fort 5: goblins invade, kill the two crosbow dwarves and then the rest. :learn army building/training
fort 6: baron/king demands X!! : Learn to trade for materials and to remember to bring turtles/treat the shells like gold.
fort 7: ooh adamantium!
etc

players who dont want to take the time to study the wiki or search/ask in the forum when they get stuck at a certain point are just lame and probably just cursory passersby anyhow.

[Shadetree]

players who dont want to take the time to study the wiki or search/ask in the forum when they get stuck at a certain point are just lame and probably just cursory passersby anyhow.

yes because only the hardcore should be allowed to play DF